Controlling women’s bodies. Trump & Pence.

9 Oct

trump-on-women

 

It neither shocked nor surprised me to yesterday hear a recording of US presidential candidate Donald Trump, made some ten years ago, boasting that his wealth and fame entitle him to grab women by the genitals, and kiss them without consent, because he finds female beauty irresistible:

I’ve gotta use some Tic Tacs, just in case I start kissing her. You know I’m automatically attracted to beautiful—I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star they let you do it. You can do anything.

Men using their power to gain sexual access to women is nothing new. Bill Clinton has been accused of rape, sexual harassment, exposing himself to a woman who didn’t want to see the presidential penis, and of numerous affairs, the most famous of which involved White House intern Monica Lewinsky, and the most lengthy of which was, it’s said, conducted over some twenty-two years.

These matters are relevant a) because Trump repeatedly points to Clinton as being just as bad: Well, look over there, I’m not the only one who does it and b) because Trump has threatened several times to raise Clinton’s sexual history during debates with Democrat opponent Hillary Clinton, on the somewhat bizarre grounds that any woman married to an unfaithful man isn’t fit to be president of the United States.

HRC, goes Trump’s argument, has enabled her husband to sexually exploit women, therefore is as responsible for harm as is Clinton. This harmful enabling disqualifies HRC from challenging Trump on his attitudes to women because hers aren’t much better, particularly, Trump argues, as Secretary Clinton has allegedly pursued and intimidated some of the women with whom her husband enjoyed intimacy in an effort to ensure their silence.

There is some substance to the theory that tolerating deceptive behaviour is enabling that deceptive behaviour: the unfaithful spouse learns faithfulness is not a requirement for the relationship to continue, and there will be no catastrophic repercussions. I can only guess at HRC’s motives for choosing to remain in a marriage with Clinton, but I’m pretty certain that had they divorced she wouldn’t be running for President today, and she likely wouldn’t have been Secretary of State in the Obama administration either.

HRC is a pragmatist. Anyone running for presidential or other high office, male or female, must have that goal as their primary ambition and be willing to tailor his or her life to the demands of the race. Divorce and the failure it signifies in a country where religious beliefs about marriage and family hold great political sway, together with financial settlements that may reveal far too much about one’s circumstances are situations to be avoided, particularly if you are a politically ambitious woman.

It may well be that HRC long ago came to an understanding with herself that the anguish of betrayal was the price she’d have to pay for achieving her goals. She isn’t the first woman to come to this conclusion, and she won’t be the last.

There are women who find sharing life with a treacherous partner is more than they can bear and that they deserve better, as they do. The cycle of betrayal is a cycle of abuse. Married life with a man such as Clinton would be intolerable for me, but I’m not interested in political office and my priorities are living a life free from abuse and humiliation with a partner I can trust. HRC doesn’t appear to have been in a position (within the confines of the system she inhabits) to both achieve her political ambitions and live free from emotional and mental spousal abuse. She’s had to make choices.

HRC’s pragmatism does not in any way indicate an unsuitability for high office, quite the opposite I would have thought.

Trump’s attitude to women is vile, and it’s on the higher end of a vile continuum. He’s been caught on tape voicing his sordid desires and intentions: we know we’re dealing with a poster boy for sexism and exploitation. But think on this. Mike Pence, Trump’s running mate, believes abortion to be “monstrous” and vows to do everything possible to prevent women accessing the procedure, including attempting to overturn Roe v Wade.  Should Trump win, Pence is next in line for the presidency in the event of some kind of Trump collapse.

Everywhere we turn, we find a man attempting to control women’s bodies, either through sexual exploitation and abuse, and/or control of our reproductive processes. Trump, Clinton, Pence are high-profile performers of a dominant culture that is still, despite its sophistication  and its claims to western superiority, profoundly contemptuous of women, and committed to denying our autonomy and our humanity.

I’m no fan of Hillary Rodham Clinton. There are, in my opinion, many concerns about her becoming the next president of the US. However, Bill Clinton’s sexual predation and the manner in which she’s chosen to deal with it are not among them. But hey, she’s a woman. On that fact alone she’s blameworthy, and Trump knows it.

 

 

 

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99 Responses to “Controlling women’s bodies. Trump & Pence.”

  1. diannaart October 9, 2016 at 10:14 am #

    Jennifer

    Married life with a man such as Clinton would be intolerable for me, but I’m not interested in political office and my priorities are living a life free from abuse and humiliation with a partner I can trust.

    Is this too much to ask? Maybe, if if HRC is an example.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Jennifer Wilson October 9, 2016 at 10:19 am #

      It shouldn’t be too much to ask, diannart, in an ideal world.
      Everybody has their line in the sand. HRC’s is different from mine.

      Liked by 1 person

      • diannaart October 9, 2016 at 12:08 pm #

        I agree.

        Then is it reasonable to ask that people who aspire to power drop their values at the door?

        Certain characteristics aid people up the pyramid, too much of these characteristics of pragmatism coupled with a sense of entitlement, self belief and other similarly selfish abilities – we wind up with Trump.

        Maybe HRC has the right balance.

        Do people believe that Obama had to dump most of his values?

        Liked by 2 people

        • Jennifer Wilson October 9, 2016 at 1:30 pm #

          Some describe it as compromise, some as pragmatism, but in general, anyone who achieves political power does so through working within the existing system.
          It’s the system that needs an overhaul. I think Sanders was onto that, but nobody wanted to listen.

          Like

          • diannaart October 9, 2016 at 1:34 pm #

            Jennifer

            I keep hoping there is a place in the Clinton government after the election. Hope is all I got left.

            Liked by 1 person

          • Fiona October 9, 2016 at 5:49 pm #

            I don’t have problems with compromise or pragmatism. I do have extreme difficulty with expediency. That, in my book, is selling one’s soul to the devil.

            Liked by 1 person

            • Jennifer Wilson October 9, 2016 at 6:20 pm #

              The thing is, when does one become the other & who decides?
              I don’t know how HRC can spend her life with Clinton. If it were me I’d feel soiled by his presence, but then I’d never succeed as a politician either.

              Liked by 1 person

              • Fiona October 9, 2016 at 6:24 pm #

                It’s a difficult question, Jennifer. My father was a Commonwealth public servant for nearly 30 years, and unfortunately for his career never quite “got” the idea of compromise. However, he taught me so much about the value of integrity.

                Liked by 1 person

                • Jennifer Wilson October 9, 2016 at 10:55 pm #

                  But fortunately for his character and for you perhaps, Fiona.

                  Like

                  • Fiona October 9, 2016 at 11:03 pm #

                    Indeed. I can never say “yes” if I don’t believe it. Inconvenient at times, but I don’t care.

                    Like

              • Marilyn October 10, 2016 at 1:05 am #

                When my mother knew he was molesting me she blamed me for wearing the shorts she bought me, when she knew he was screwing any woman he could convince she blamed the other women.

                When he kicked her out rather than kill her she spent years trying to get him back.

                The rest of us didn’t give a flying fuck when the pedophile arsehole shuffled of the mortal coil.

                Who knows how some dimwitted women think. Bill makes my skin crawl and she monstered and blamed the victims of his predatory ways and she makes my skin crawl.

                Liked by 2 people

                • Jennifer Wilson October 10, 2016 at 6:58 am #

                  I don’t know how some women think either, Marilyn, but I’ve always speculated that HRC tolerated unrelenting humiliation and rejection because she was dedicated to the long game: being president herself, and divorcing Bill wasn’t going to help her achieve that.
                  There’s probably many more reasons, nothing boils down to one explanation, and there’s likely just as many reasons for your mother’s behaviour, and my mother’s as well.
                  At least we broke the cycle, you and me. At least we know how to love our families. For that we deserve credit.

                  Liked by 1 person

                  • diannaart October 10, 2016 at 11:58 am #

                    Many people survive by compartmentalising their experiences – never managed it myself – more your anxious depressive. I can imagine HRC as very good at storing things in neat little boxes…

                    Like

                  • AnnODyne October 17, 2016 at 9:41 pm #

                    ‘divorcing Bill wasn’t going to achieve that’ Yes exactly, and i wonder why nobody feels that a man divorced TWICE is fit to be leader of a nation with a ‘Bible Belt’.

                    Liked by 2 people

                    • Jennifer Wilson October 19, 2016 at 3:31 pm #

                      h well he’s a man the women he married were obviously at fault, poor guy SNORT

                      Liked by 1 person

    • AnnODyne October 17, 2016 at 9:39 pm #

      ” … for better, or for worse, … “. I would love to read through the TWO divorce files of Donald Trump.

      Liked by 1 person

  2. townsvilleblog October 9, 2016 at 10:31 am #

    One of these poor excuses for men is simply a gutter rat with money and the other is a religious fanatic who believes as does the cult he belongs to that women are inferior beings, personally I wouldn’t piss on either of them if I saw them on fire at the side of a road. Pardon me for being blunt, but this is how I honestly feel about them.

    Liked by 3 people

    • diannaart October 9, 2016 at 12:17 pm #

      Me too.

      However, our present culture suits these types of men and a particularly tough kind of woman. HRC must have iron clad ovaries and an incredible constitution – to come back from pneumonia and hardly miss a step. Whereas Trump can fall on his arse and it doesn’t matter – he is held to different standards – those of the disruptor, the kid at the back of class chewing up wads of paper and spitting them on ceilings – he gets the laughs and a significant proportion of the population love this; the larrikin is given a lot of rope in Australia and the …. lost for words…. what is Trump in USA speak?

      PLease excuse, mistakes my ME has been doing its usual thang.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Jennifer Wilson October 9, 2016 at 1:28 pm #

      Well, I kind of agree, Shaun.

      Like

    • Marilyn October 10, 2016 at 1:06 am #

      That statement goes triple for me

      Liked by 1 person

  3. silkworm October 9, 2016 at 12:17 pm #

    Trump was merely trying to return us to the good old days.

    We will miss him. 😉

    Liked by 2 people

    • diannaart October 9, 2016 at 12:22 pm #

      Brilliant, Silkworm

      Like

    • Jennifer Wilson October 9, 2016 at 1:34 pm #

      That’s excellent, Silkworm. If a little unnerving…

      Like

  4. diannaart October 9, 2016 at 1:42 pm #

    Not only was Trump grabbing whatever piece of arse ass took his fancy, back in 1999 he was pro-choice – by which I mean he supported women holding autonomy over their own bodies – what did the Red Queen say to Alice about contradictory thoughts. Although, if someone wants a free fuck, then pro-choice is a good idea.

    Everything is about perception, I guess.

    Like

  5. samjandwich October 9, 2016 at 4:17 pm #

    What I’m interested in is, is the widespread backlash against Trump, even from members of his own party, evidence that the acceptability of men using their power to gain sexual access to women is starting to diminish amongst the patriarchy? Or is it simply pragmatism? Surely the Republicans knew this sort of material would be released sooner or later before they endorsed him? Perhaps they simply weren’t aware of their own revulsion to this sort of language until it was presented to them directly?

    To be honest I haven’t made up my mind about this yet, but it is true to say that I’ve heard worse from guys at the pub, and I don’t doubt that Bill Clinton’s efforts on the golf course are any better…

    Liked by 1 person

    • Jennifer Wilson October 9, 2016 at 6:19 pm #

      Actually, Sam I’m wondering if it’s nothing more than prudishness driving the backlash. Nothing to do with outrage at the treatment of & attitudes towards women, but prudish distaste for Trump’s language.

      Liked by 2 people

      • Fiona October 9, 2016 at 6:25 pm #

        That’s not implausible. After all, when did the USA media finally allow lingerie to be displayed with nothing between the garment and the body?

        Liked by 2 people

        • samjandwich October 9, 2016 at 8:22 pm #

          Yes I rather think you both have a point/-;

          Liked by 1 person

          • diannaart October 9, 2016 at 9:57 pm #

            Indeed Fiona, Jennifer, samjamwich

            The outrage of the, er, outraged Republicans, does not extend to fertility choices for women – those who were on board with Trump till now – I must respect those GOP members who have been opposed to Trump from the very beginning of the show.

            Liked by 1 person

            • diannaart October 9, 2016 at 9:58 pm #

              Apologies for using Grand Old Party acronym, the Republican party is just old.

              Like

            • Jennifer Wilson October 9, 2016 at 10:56 pm #

              I don’t go so far as to respect them, diannart, but they seem to have a bit of common sense and foresight.

              Like

              • diannaart October 10, 2016 at 11:35 am #

                Jennifer

                Take your point about the respect part, but I have reached such a level of cynicism with regard to the conservative right, that anything reasonable is like a beacon of light. I get a little excited.

                But then, my brain clicks on and asks where were these ‘reasonable’ Republicans when Obama was trying to get a decent health system (and more) for the USA?

                Like

      • doug quixote October 9, 2016 at 10:51 pm #

        It could be their prudishness. But whatever works to remove the teflon which has coated Trump’s bullshit for years. Let them be prudish, if that’s what it takes.

        Liked by 1 person

  6. doug quixote October 9, 2016 at 10:46 pm #

    William Jefferson Clinton was a good President. He had his personal faults, as well as his personal virtues; a rounded personality and not a cardboard cut-out saint.

    If Hillary chose to remain his wife regardless of the faults, it was no doubt because in her judgement the virtues outweighed the faults.

    It is amazing that she wants the job after seeing just how impossible a job it is, from the inside. Her courage, determination and judgement are manifest to all who know anything about her.

    She will make a good President.

    Liked by 2 people

  7. nansfarm October 10, 2016 at 5:08 am #

    There can be no excuse for Donald Trump’s behaviour and I can’t help wondering how long it will be before women start coming forward with their accusations,(fingers crossed) remember Jimmy Savile (UK)? As for Hilary Clinton, she’s not the first and certainly won’t be the last to forgive a husband his appalling womanising, we all know someone just like her don’t we?

    Liked by 2 people

    • Jennifer Wilson October 10, 2016 at 6:59 am #

      Well, I certainly do, nansfarm. I don’t know if they forgive, or if their satisfactions are a little darker than that!

      Liked by 1 person

      • diannaart October 10, 2016 at 11:48 am #

        As with many of life’s vicissitudes, women learn to live and get on with what they have to do.

        As for “dark satisfactions”, yes, I have been there, a long time ago.

        Like

  8. Macam October 10, 2016 at 10:43 am #

    The all American bogan
    The Trump is all about celebrity worship and American exceptionalism, perceived wealth and perceived greatness,he who shouts the loudest equals greatness to millions of under-educated Americans.
    America deserves Trump but the rest of the world doesn’t.
    How about Hanson defending this piece of crap, a sad indictment of our own education system.
    Lets just enjoy the mass debate….

    Like

    • doug quixote October 10, 2016 at 3:29 pm #

      And a massdebate it was too. Hillary walked quietly all over him.

      Even a third grader could work out who is the better candidate.

      Hmmm . . . on second thoughts it may be close.

      Like

      • Jennifer Wilson October 10, 2016 at 3:47 pm #

        I have yet to see it as I’ve been busy with ice this morning.

        Like

  9. 8 Degrees of Latitude October 10, 2016 at 11:30 am #

    Donald Trump is a worm who is unfit for public office on any set of criteria I can envisage. His attitude to women, as a wealthy individual who because of this can grab at will, is frankly disgusting. He would be a disaster politically, socially and culturally in the White House.

    There are a great many Neanderthal and predatory men who have never really grown up and who parlay their money into sexual gratification for themselves, often – we should admit – with the willing acquisitive acceptance of the women concerned. That such relationships are transitory, power-based, and profane is a comment on the banal proclivities of the human species.

    As to philandering, many more people than might seem apparent even from the pages of the glossy wannabe magazines do not accord to sex the sort of sacred aspect religious liturgies proclaim for it and which ordered society has turned into a secular requirement. Trust within a relationship goes far further than the bedroom. In the accusative fashion of voyeuristic public discourse, unfaithful sex is accorded star status as something that should not be done; but this is frequently presented as a sort of come-on: everyone does it, teehee, but this guy got caught, teehee.

    It’s far better to leave such private matters for those who engage in them or are affected by them to deal as they choose with that fact and its consequences. The fact that Trump is a serial philanderer is of no consequence. The fact that he is a coarse, boastful, power-wielding, money-buys-anything creep is of great consequence. He is an ill-formed character and a moral and ethical vacuum, for whom it would be mad to vote.

    I hope he loses in a landslide. I shall be enraged if he doesn’t. I shall be thoroughly fearful if he wins.

    Liked by 3 people

    • Jennifer Wilson October 10, 2016 at 3:56 pm #

      8 degrees, I know we’ve had this convo before. I don’t have any sacred liturgical opinions about sex, but if my partner is going to lie to me about the most intimate parts of our relationship, then I don’t know what else she or he might be prepared to lie to me about.
      I’m all for being upfront: if I want to have sex outside the relationship, why not say so and vice versa.
      It’s the lies, not the sex.

      Liked by 2 people

    • helvityni October 11, 2016 at 8:57 am #

      Wise words there, 8 Degrees.

      I don’t see our Abbott as a womaniser, but I suspect he does not see women, not even his own, as his equals.

      I seen family shots of Trump and Abbott ,their daughters dressed in virginal white, it says a lot about those two men…

      Liked by 3 people

  10. FA October 10, 2016 at 11:59 am #

    “HRC, goes Trump’s argument, has enabled her husband to sexually exploit women, therefore is as responsible for harm as is Clinton.”

    That’s not the argument. A few of the women saying Bill Clinton raped them also claim that Hillary Clinton was his enforcer. That is, she would approach them afterwards and make it clear she would destroy them if they made any trouble. Broaddrick, for example, explicitly says that Hillary Clinton threatened her. That is very different from just putting up with a husband’s infidelity.

    Like

    • doug quixote October 10, 2016 at 3:24 pm #

      On the basis that she believed her husband rather than the women.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Jennifer Wilson October 10, 2016 at 3:46 pm #

        Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!
        Nope.

        Liked by 1 person

        • doug quixote October 11, 2016 at 12:46 pm #

          Back then, not now! I understand that Hillary did not speak to Bill for some months after it all came out in 1999 (?).

          Liked by 1 person

          • Jennifer Wilson October 11, 2016 at 12:51 pm #

            Yes, that was the Lewinsky thing. Story has it she only broke her silence to tell him to bomb Kosovo.

            Maybe I’m cynical, but I think HRC knew she’d get nowhere politically if she ditched Bill.

            Like

          • Jennifer Wilson October 11, 2016 at 12:55 pm #

            Anyways, DQ, how many times can a truly smart woman disbelieve, or think *he won’t do it again? *

            Like

    • Jennifer Wilson October 10, 2016 at 3:45 pm #

      Didn’t I go on to say HRC has been accused of intimidating women in an effort to silence them?

      Like

  11. paul walter. October 10, 2016 at 4:46 pm #

    Yes, I don’t quite get the Bill Clinton bashing stuff, a different person, different era, different behaviours. He was paid out by the press and media in public and his wife in private. Is there something else involved in this piece that I have missed?

    The thing with Clinton was the smear campaign launched against him by Republicans like Newt Gingrich, who turned out to have a far worse record with women than Clinton haters could have dreamed of and was a campaign not concerned with Clinton’s or anyone else’s “morality” but an undermining of the Presidency of much the same sort employed by the Hard Right against Obama.

    Re the latest debate, It appears Trump did better according to the ABC feed but Hilary Clinton continues to inch toward the Presidency

    Liked by 1 person

    • helvityni October 10, 2016 at 6:32 pm #

      Paul, both JF Kennedy and Clinton are seen as good Presidents, and as you say they are from a different era, what have Bill’s infidelities to do with Hillary’s ability to be a good and competent President.

      Trump is today’s man, and we are all free to judge him by today’s standards.

      I just watched The Drum, I have to say that I agree with everything Mike Seccombe had to say.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Jennifer Wilson October 10, 2016 at 6:46 pm #

        Absolutely nothing, Helvi.

        Like

      • paul walter. October 10, 2016 at 8:38 pm #

        Must catch up with Drum, watched it for few moments then nodded off. Seccombe always strives for balance, unlike some of the other creatures they have on their panels.

        A little later, Waleed Aly mad a good point about Trump and that point was that the response to Trump is cumulative, he has said so many shock jock things about minorities and in isolation they have been commented on, then people have moved on, but this time he may have over egged the pudding once too often.

        I also agree with the argument that he diverts attention from real issues, very much as John Howard and Tony Abbott have been able to do.

        I think he is being judged by current standards increasingly, to the point that he botches his run. He is classic Tea Party, thus reactive to change, demographics are different in this era and what women, Mexicans, Muslims and others think IS important, these people are no longer inconsequential and can be provoked to vote against WASP ideology when it assumes a more hostile form.

        Liked by 1 person

  12. paul walter. October 10, 2016 at 6:27 pm #

    The other thing that comes to mind is Marilyn’s comment regarding long term Big Game politics in the Middle East and elsewhere, something that has cost millions of lives and trillions of recession-inducing dollars in the narrow interests of a shadowy oligarchy

    DQ correctly responded re “relativity”; furthermore I think the issue is so large, so poorly reported and like the Cosmic Noise, with us constantly, so that invariably we don’t recognise it.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Jennifer Wilson October 10, 2016 at 6:45 pm #

      It’s the meta narrative, PW.

      Like

      • paul walter. October 10, 2016 at 8:48 pm #

        I’m not unsympathetic to your underlying point, that into the post- industrial twenty first çentury old ways and old attitudes and the behaviours that derive of these become offensive to those they are directed toward or against.

        You are arguing, I believe, that in this day and age, it is no longer productive for men to regard women as targets rather than as fellow beings also with feelings, both for their partners sakes and their own.

        Of course, we don’t know whether Trump’s performance in bed with women belies the impression he gives of being a wham bam thank you man rushing to put another notch on his stick, or someone who has discovered that genuinely satisfying times involving human interaction and empathy come from the opposite to that approach.

        Like

        • Jennifer Wilson October 10, 2016 at 9:29 pm #

          It has never been productive for men to regard women as targets, PW, and I imagine the world would be a very different place if powerful men who set the agenda had never assumed that point of view and made it *normal.*

          I don’t want to think about Trump having sex, I’ll never sleep if I do.

          Like

          • paul walter. October 10, 2016 at 10:55 pm #

            That keen?

            Like

            • paul walter. October 10, 2016 at 11:02 pm #

              Tell you what, the more I read and watch and hear of Trump, the more I am convinced he is a thug, although I think it comes across worse because he is stylistically redundant.

              He is like Abbott or Bernardi. The Clark Gable/ John Wayne/Clint Eastwood era was a long time ago, yet card board cut out masculinity remains the imprint for male socialisation.

              Liked by 1 person

              • doug quixote October 11, 2016 at 12:00 am #

                He’s a man who grew up in the 1950s; he was 13 years old in 1959. Not only that but he grew up rich, despite the rhetoric. Daddy passed on $300 million in the late 1990s.

                He didn’t have to be an arsehole, but the headstart was there. Let him stay counting his millions, if he still has them.

                As for President, I can only repeat about Trump what I often said about Tony Abbott – unfit for office; any office.

                Liked by 1 person

              • Jennifer Wilson October 11, 2016 at 9:10 am #

                That era hasn’t released its grip on civilisation one bit, PW, and isn’t about to.
                Oh, yes, they’ll huff & puff about Trump’s *sexism* but that’s all it is, huff and puff.
                As for his xenophobia, racism, warmongering: well, basically the alpha male agrees with all that anyway.

                Liked by 1 person

                • diannaart October 11, 2016 at 9:16 am #

                  Well said, Jennifer

                  I could not have put it better…

                  Like

  13. diannaart October 11, 2016 at 9:28 am #

    John Oliver can express anything far better than I ever could.

    (Warning this video includes footage of male Republicans who have admitted their wives, daughters, mothers and sister are in fact women.)

    Liked by 1 person

  14. EricaSpeaks October 18, 2016 at 5:24 am #

    In the present era, with women proving their mettle time and again, such disrespectful behaviour and objectification of women should is unacceptable.

    Liked by 1 person

  15. doug quixote October 19, 2016 at 8:10 am #

    Speaking of controlling women’s bodies, this is a step in the right direction:

    http://www.abc.net.au/triplej/programs/hack/is-this-the-end-of-airbrushed-vulvas-in-australian-media/7943676

    Free the labia!

    Liked by 1 person

    • AnnODyne October 19, 2016 at 3:14 pm #

      You’ll love this – ‘Labia Library’. I would like to hear a male opinion on the extra stimulus of those ‘outie’ ones the young girls want removed. mine is a natural ‘clam’, the only fabulous thing about my body and I cannot flash it about. drat.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Jennifer Wilson October 19, 2016 at 4:26 pm #

        I dare not open that link. It reminds me of when I once clicked on an image of Julia Gillard on Google and was absolutely bombarded for days with soft porn.
        (Actually, mine is a natural clam as well.)

        Like

        • AnnODyne October 19, 2016 at 7:49 pm #

          link is safe – as safe as anything The Gubmint is behind. actually I think it’s a university site.
          Happy as a clam!

          Liked by 2 people

          • diannaart October 19, 2016 at 7:52 pm #

            AnnODyne

            Now I get that saying

            😛

            Like

      • doug quixote October 19, 2016 at 7:06 pm #

        I do. They all look good to me. 🙂

        I admit to liking flamboyant labia; it is also my experience that women possessed of luscious lips enjoy sex more than most . . . anecdotal, not a matter of scientific study! (Perhaps Masters and Johnson could give the statistical analysis??)

        I deplore that any woman would seek cosmetic surgery for her vulva. Some say that porn requires neat quims; if they say that, they haven’t seen much porn.

        Vive la difference!

        Liked by 2 people

    • Jennifer Wilson October 19, 2016 at 4:24 pm #

      How do you find this stuff DQ?
      I’m delighted to know of the end of the air brushed labia. Now maybe everyone can get back to worshipping *ordinary* female genitalia.

      Like

      • paul walter. October 19, 2016 at 5:30 pm #

        This is obviously an open invitation I am not going to miss. I Ignored this below, following for a week or two but finally succumbed.

        https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/oct/12/female-genitals-are-still-in-the-closet-we-need-to-talk-more-about-vaginas

        A couple of thoughts. Firstly, note the motif.. where have we seen this before? If not an orchid, surely a mouse’s ear?

        Secondly, AnnoDyne. Clearly Barry McKenzie had you in mind when he talked of “spearing the bearded clam” in the Ädventures of Barry Mackenzie” a movie well past 40 years old that no aussie movie has travelled to the level thereof since.

        With the Lumby piece, I avoided it because I had a fair idea of what it was going to say and frankly, much of the stuff women do to themselves utterly mystifies me.

        Labial trimming including tender inner labia, is of course another bizarre nonsense from the USA that has found its way to this country via Sydney, always the first point for cultural contamination, then the rest of country more slowly.

        I’ll hold my peace from here, what they done toTrump was nasty and I dont twant to be the next mug caught out in the open ‘for sexism.

        Liked by 1 person

        • doug quixote October 19, 2016 at 7:13 pm #

          It’s not sexist to support women looking they way they want to look. Preferably the way nature made them.

          Liked by 1 person

          • paul walter. October 19, 2016 at 7:34 pm #

            Only a quibble, do they know what they want to look like if they want to look ugly (or lose sensitivity in varied parts of their anatomy)?

            Why not just set upon themselves with a razor blade?

            Liked by 1 person

            • doug quixote October 19, 2016 at 9:44 pm #

              Don’t go there! The box of Pandora is only partly mythological . . .

              Liked by 1 person

              • paul walter. October 20, 2016 at 12:08 am #

                This is risky. There is so much I could say and so little margin for safety.

                Liked by 1 person

                • diannaart October 20, 2016 at 8:39 am #

                  I fully concur.

                  Like

                • Jennifer Wilson October 20, 2016 at 9:58 pm #

                  I’ll just delete it if it’s offensive, PW 🙂

                  Like

            • Jennifer Wilson October 20, 2016 at 9:56 pm #

              The problem began I think in censorship of soft core porn. It was deemed by the censors to be obscene to display female genitalia that wasn’t neatly tucked away, & so normal women were airbrushed to look like twelve year olds. Porn consumers gradually came to believe that was how women should look, and then some women took to being sculpted to conform to the pornographic *norm*

              Liked by 1 person

              • diannaart October 21, 2016 at 10:03 am #

                Thank you, Jennifer.

                Another, thank you – just for the hell of it.

                There is much we need to discuss…. we do not have to ban porn – we do need to look at the implications of presenting people’s bodies from a very skewed perspective. I know I have to tread sooooo very carefully on this issue… I would never equate Paul Walter, Doug or Hypo with Trump… just men of their generation.

                Whereas, Trump is the result of great power held by a man often described as an alpha-male, although I am not sure this is accurate, Trump is a man of massive insecurities who normally would spend his days as a nonentity (probably an angry nonentity) had he not been born into such wealth and all the attendant opportunities.

                Liked by 1 person

        • diannaart October 19, 2016 at 7:37 pm #

          Women ARE such creatures of mystery…

          “much of the stuff women do to themselves utterly mystifies me”

          Penis lengthening – one rarely hears of penis shortening, although there was this young man I once knew…. never mind, there actually IS a case for dick shortening I mean, adjustment, don’t need to go there right now.

          There are also bicep, triceps, pecs & calve inserts, full body wax – for the, er, manlier man. I think its all done for similar reasons women do such self ‘enhancement’ – but I do not wish to disabuse Paul of the feminine mystique.

          😉

          Liked by 1 person

        • Jennifer Wilson October 20, 2016 at 9:54 pm #

          PW, there is no comparison between you and Trump. You are safe.

          Like

      • doug quixote October 19, 2016 at 7:11 pm #

        It was a news item on ABC website!

        It has been my bete noir for thirty years : how our censors require airbrushing of pubic areas, which has made a generation of girls feel bad about their normal anatomy.

        Liked by 1 person

  16. paul walter. October 19, 2016 at 10:49 pm #

    I know… I was going to say I won’t go on with it but people are commenting.

    Yes, It struck me, all the irrational and costly things I’ve done (to) myself over the years, in different ways to cosmetic surgery of course and I have to accept that most humans are a bit nutty, pot kettle stuff including me.

    I think DQ;s last comment about complexes is what’s at the back of my mind also. Its not all dark hatred, I just think it is curious what people do to themselves, some times I want to go, “hey, you don’t have to do these things to yourself, you are good enough already, resist the bs”.

    Liked by 1 person

    • diannaart October 19, 2016 at 11:07 pm #

      Good that you returned from the 1950’s – if you’re not careful a person can get stuck there

      Like

  17. paul walter. October 20, 2016 at 6:09 pm #

    Sometimes a move from the1950’s to these more robust (?)times can indeed be a culture shock.

    By way of explanation, just back home after a pleasant afternoon out, this caught my eye and has given me a totally new slant on the subject, I’m utterly stunned at the implicit utter ignorance and cold-blooded callousness involved:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/oct/20/having-sex-with-the-lights-off-its-the-thin-edge-of-the-donald-trump-wedge#comment-85816135

    Liked by 1 person

  18. diannaart October 20, 2016 at 6:48 pm #

    Trump has done it again – when you think he’d try to appeal to the female voter, he inserts foot in mouth yet again.

    This time, Trump called Hillary a “nasty woman” not in reply to anything in particular just as a general comment during the ‘debate’. I guess it is for Hillary speaking her mind, not an unusual event – women speaking their mind and being called nasty. Only recently I recall someone calling yours truly “nasty”.

    Must be a man thing. Although these men do have their female groupies – can never fathom such women – must be a reflected glory thing.

    😛

    http://junkee.com/nasty-women-hillary-americans-fire-back-trumps-latest-insult/87772

    Liked by 1 person

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