12 Mar

UPDATE: Sorry for shouting but in my defence I’d just been in Question Time and was unduly influenced by Anna Burke. LOL.




I turn my back for five minutes and there’s a break out.

Stop fighting. Robust argument only.

Oh, BTW this piece on feminism after Gillard expresses some of my feelings on the PM:

88 Responses to “Housekeeping”

  1. Christine Says Hi March 12, 2013 at 11:53 am #

    Oh blow. Missed the whole thing as usual. Is there an app I can download so that when exciting stuff happens I’m not distracted by ephemera, like work or life?


  2. Hypocritophobe March 12, 2013 at 12:15 pm #

    Oh no,someone criticised Gillard.
    It must be the MSM.
    Is Crikey a Murdoch rag?
    Are feminists under the influence of Abbott,too?
    Is it the Vatican?


  3. paul walter March 12, 2013 at 1:10 pm #

    It would be helpful, Jennifer,if you read the thread and recognised where the majority of the abuse comes from and deal with such folk.
    People have aways been quick to tar and feather me for more than a foot out of place, but the stuff a couple of rabid people get away with here makes me appear a babe in the woods,and never a hint of censure.
    Should I bother with the supposed link on the PM, or just conclude that it is the usual reactionary bile and find something more pleasant to do, since non personalised and objective conversation seems so tenuous here?


    • Nick March 12, 2013 at 1:39 pm #

      Find something more pleasant to do, paul 🙂 I had a quick read through (ooh, ooh fight! what’s going on). I’m now quickly going to return to the infinitely more pleasurable task of stuffing 100 sqm of itchy rockwool insulation into the ceiling on a 34 degree day.


      • paul walter March 12, 2013 at 1:51 pm #

        No, I have some thing infinitely more diabolical in mind.
        I am off to u choob to listen to the entire sequence of Englebert Humperdinck clips from the ‘sixties, as I sit here under the air conditioner consumed with guilt that I too am not receiving a fatal dose of silicosis from the installation of roof insulation, which, of course, should only ever be removed or installed on a hot day.
        What madness abounds.
        Come on, cool change!!

        Oh dear, someone dared query the anti Gillard bile, crucify them, crucify them…


        • Nick March 12, 2013 at 2:02 pm #

          I am wearing a good quality filter mask, but it’s too hot up there for long sleeves and trousers, so itchiness it is! And probably being banned from the bed tonight. And yes, regretting I didn’t do all of this two months ago…if you ever see me commenting too much, it probably means I’m putting something off I should be doing 😉


          • Hypocritophobe March 12, 2013 at 2:35 pm #

            Buy and use some paper disposable overalls.


            • Nick March 12, 2013 at 3:05 pm #

              Cheers, hypo! They look ideal.


              • Hypocritophobe March 12, 2013 at 3:39 pm #

                If you find ones with breathable armpits,grab them.
                They are all pretty tuff, but don’t keep them after the job is done.
                Depending on how long it takes you may need couple.Start further from the manhole/s and work back towards them.
                TURN THE POWER OFF first.
                Leave a gap around the light fittings.
                Watch out for creepy crawlies.
                Have a ‘spotter’ and some H2O on hand.
                Early AM and late PM is best.
                Good luck.


    • Hypocritophobe March 12, 2013 at 1:46 pm #

      Oh look you kept pushing the big red button,too.

      Shutting down someone who exposes the lies and BS is the sort of thing I would expect from the Abbott side of politics.
      I think that says a lot about you.
      The fact that you are prepared to side with obvious lies confirms why nothing seems askew in your political world, or in any part of the real world either.

      Lock away the reffos,no-one can hear them tell the truth.
      Sanitise the definition of what offends others Human Rights ,by making it into a crime.
      Censor the internet.
      Hand pick teachers who are ‘pro big union’ under the guise of ‘suitable mental’ pre-condition for employment.
      Who brings us these ‘shut down policies’ Paul?
      Which party

      Your support for the pattern is crystal clear.
      It happens to be that conservationism clicks in when we age,and some are lucky enough to recognise it,and maintain the rage and balance.

      Bullshit might be OK by you, but not me.
      Rewriting history, might be a tasty treat at your dining table.
      Having your position completely reversed and maligned might be acceptable by you, so be it.
      So lobby away paul.
      Ask JW,to have get me edited,banned,neutered,silenced,controlled,expunged,erased or whatever else it is you need to stop me flicking egg in your face.
      I fight for the ‘fair go’ wherever I can.If not here,then anywhere I can.And when I see people undermining that value with lies and manipulative speech, or two faced back pedalling, I will speak out.
      It’s in my DNA.It is no longer in the ALPs.
      Ergo,it aint in you either.
      So have me shredded paul.Who needs the truth.



      • paul walter March 12, 2013 at 1:52 pm #

        Well when would you be interested in the truth when simple abuse can suffice.


    • Marilyn March 12, 2013 at 5:40 pm #

      It was not bile, it was a well written piece by a respected woman.

      Get a grip boys, Gillard is no feminist heroine, she is a persecutor of minority groups of women.


    • Jennifer Wilson March 14, 2013 at 10:07 am #

      Yes, well I usually do read the threads but am currently trying to have a holiday. No the link is not the usual reactionary bile and worth reading.


  4. doug quixote March 12, 2013 at 1:38 pm #

    Jennifer, on reviewing the comments in “there are no votes in decency” it should be crystal clear to you who is doing ALL the fighting.

    One does not have to be a psychologist to apply suitable terms to that individual’s behaviour.

    Anyone who replies the way he does cannot be allowed to continue unrestrained.


    • paul walter March 12, 2013 at 1:54 pm #

      Am fairly sure who the hypo sock puppet actually is.


      • Hypocritophobe March 12, 2013 at 2:40 pm #

        Well go on, start more bullshit.
        See if you can ‘allocate’ another smear.

        Nothing has stopped you thus far.

        I have two email addresses on in the entire universe.JW has one.
        (Possibly the other by way of accidental posting before filling in the Handle and address)
        Match either them to your accusation of multiple sock puppets.
        Both of my pseudos are known to this site.


        • paul walter March 12, 2013 at 3:05 pm #

          If its bullshit, pity you didn’t down under a mound of it.


        • atomou March 12, 2013 at 3:40 pm #

          Hypo, I bet, Pauly thinks you are I and I are you.

          Where’s the bloody fighting?
          All I see here is what Jennifer desires: robust discussion; and when you have robust discussion you indubitably have robust exchanges. If robust exchanges are not one’s cuppa, then let them go to a tea house.

          For goodness’ sake! Respond with equal measure!
          If words like bullshit offends you, then do go to a tea house and don’t expect to get the PC vocab of your choice. It’s what drove me to do all those translations by Aristophanes. Sick of all the bawdlerising of these stunning plays.

          Insults too, are just words. Cop them sweet or respond to them the way you feel comfortable with. Nothing is more boring than a nicey-nicey, unctious, syrup dribbling blog! Repulsive. I have walked out of a number of such mountains of dung. Hopeless fiction. Unreal. Unrealistic. Unimaginative. Unpleasant. Unimportant. Insincere. Indecent. indecorous. False. Pretentious. Forgettable. Irrelevant. Pointless.

          For Zeus’ sake be human and be real! Just be human and forget the Sunday lunch with the reverent at the head of the table… By the way, I love the British sit com “Rev!” Now, that’s how a rev should behave.

          The phrase “warts and all” is bullshit. There are no warts when it comes to expressing oneself with words. There are only words! Full stop. The Turettes syndrom kids that I taught were all fantastic and taught me more than I taught them – about human nature.
          Stop the prissy nonsense! Get on with the discussion and if people prefer teahouses, well then let them go there but if I see this lovely paddock turned into one, I’ll be orf!


          • atomou March 12, 2013 at 3:44 pm #

            Sick of the hypocrisy of people who defend the use of sexualisation, pornification and exposure of all sorts of “adult” material to the children, can’t cope with such absolutely immaterial exchanges between adults.

            Hypo, your nic is perfect. Wish I had thought of it because it describes my sentiments exactly.


            • Hypocritophobe March 12, 2013 at 4:31 pm #

              The soon to be disappointed faux Labor fans have turned ou to be the most hypocritical of all the people /politicians/groups presented here by JW.
              I think they feel their ‘ownership’ of the dialogue here has gone.
              You’ll note of course that my greatest critics are those I have exposed as hypocrites in the public arena.
              Not long offshore processing and kid prisons would have been out of bounds, now it’s their par for the course.
              Nad now here they are all circling me like African hunting dogs.
              They’d starve without each other.
              Go figure.

              Ato, if they do think I am you, or anyone else,I am well flattered.
              It means their sphincters are trembling, like jack hammers.
              Imagine their perceived dread that more than one person could possibly disagree with them.

              Did you know I can turn into several million people on election day, just to get my way?
              Apparently I can.


              • Hypocritophobe March 12, 2013 at 4:34 pm #

                Not long ‘ago’ offshore


              • atomou March 12, 2013 at 4:37 pm #

                A million of you and a million of me, mate, we’ve got the game sown up! If the Greens don’t form govn’t then, I’ll know we’re running a politburo-style ballot here!


                • Hypocritophobe March 12, 2013 at 4:38 pm #



            • hudsongodfrey March 12, 2013 at 5:24 pm #

              For reference Atomou and Hypo are from my reading of them two completely different minds differing in their views vastly on when it comes to adult material in particular.

              I like Atomou greatly, but we disagree quite a lot on those matters. I’d like to get to the bottom of it but I don’t think that I can, and in this case I really would rather not offend. This has in the past been relatively rare for me, but I’ve mellowed towards a few fellow travellers in these blogs.

              A lot of people I’ve debated with online are far more intelligent than I, but it disappoints me when we argue and it becomes defensive, let alone the kind of vile slanging match some have gotten into from time to time. You really don’t know how much it frustrates me when an intelligent person being online and therefore anonymous wastes time on evading pertinent questions that I’m open to be proven wrong about. It really interests me to learn what makes others tick, and I hope I don’t offend others by saying that you bastards don’t give that away too easily. It really is as if the right to think something that may well be indefensible is the most treasured possession any of us have. And I think you’re so wrong to treasure it!


              • Hypocritophobe March 12, 2013 at 5:45 pm #

                Which part of voting on principles are you incapable of digesting?
                Did Ato not explain it, so you understood?

                Now on the hint about ‘answering questions’,if you actually review every blog here about politics where I have ever posted,I have criticised the coalition and its members.
                Since the time I felt Gillards betrayals had reached their critical mass I began a journey of nailing her at every opportunity I could.That’s how sever they are/were, in regard to real Labor values and a ‘fair go’.
                And before you race off feeling it is your life’s duty to win this battle of vote Labor or else,I challenge you to take the time to read the titles if not the threads JW has uploaded in the politics area,
                You will notice that dominating this area are stories which are in the main dominated by criticisms of Gillard.There are some which praise, and other articles about other pollies.
                You would have to have arrogance for cartilage to think that people are not permitted to feel and express extreme dislike for the position and policies Labor currently occupies.

                On top of that anonymous or not, I won’t accept people lying at and about the content and values I express here.

                Gillard and Abbott are equally morally inferior.
                One was expected to be that way.
                One was not.You support the one who was not.I support neither.I have stated that over and over, so stop trying to skew reality,again.


                • hudsongodfrey March 12, 2013 at 6:41 pm #

                  We disagree!

                  I think we now know that.

                  I think Gillard is a poor Labor leader perhaps even one of the poorest in living memory to form a government.

                  I do not think she is worse for the country than Abbott would be.

                  And I do not give permission to or brook arguments that favour punishing her in ways that involve or even risk surrendering the reins to Abbott.

                  You have been told this enough times and given several opportunities to concede that keeping Abbott out of office is a higher priority than getting rid of Gillard. And yet you refuse to say the words.

                  I have additionally made it clear that achieving both getting rid of Gillard while beating Abbott would be an option worth considering under the appropriate circumstances. And yet you continue to embarrass yourself by arguing against all those options. So much so that it has been noted that we’re getting nowhere with this and should probably stop altogether before this becomes more undignified than it needs to be.

                  We just disagree 🙂


        • Jennifer Wilson March 14, 2013 at 10:09 am #

          Hypo, calm down. We’re all grown up s here, I’m expecting not to have to censor esp when I’m on a break.


    • Paul Smith March 12, 2013 at 2:07 pm #

      Reading over the blog the last few weeks the amount of contributors seems to have run hot and cold. More and more seems the same characters turning off new posters then turning on themselves in the absence of fresh sheep.


  5. atomou March 12, 2013 at 3:49 pm #

    I am far more offended by the misuse of the apostrophe… but there I feel like the last of the Mohicans…


    • paul walter March 12, 2013 at 4:11 pm #

      The last of them?
      That is a relief.


      • atomou March 12, 2013 at 4:25 pm #

        You insulting moi, Pauly?

        There will be no insulting while I am the Prime Suspect!


        • Hypocritophobe March 12, 2013 at 4:37 pm #

          I think he is saying that the complete and wholesale genocide of a race is better than having a single survivor.
          It’s a Tea Party thing.


          • atomou March 12, 2013 at 4:44 pm #

            Yeah, I think he would be better off moseyin’ over to that thar’ tea house. The OK Corral. I hears thars uction goin on thar! Liftin’ flies outa their tea cups!


          • paul walter March 12, 2013 at 7:49 pm #

            No,you idiot.
            I said the diametric opposite, as Hudson Godfrey and others have since commented since in explaining the concept of the lesser of two evils.


  6. hudsongodfrey March 12, 2013 at 5:02 pm #

    Thanks for the link Jennifer. I agree that Gillard’s loss would be no loss for feminism or atheism either for that matter. I don’t like her. I just hate the alternative…. That’s not a light at the end of the tunnel folks, it’s a steamroller coming the other way to reduce every partly formed, half arsed faux Labor policy you ever whined about to dust and ashes.

    Any loss that would be Abbott’s gain would in my view be a dreadful result for the country as a whole. Apparently you can’t say that without either being accused of abandoning your principles because you failed to punish a woman that almost everyone has taken permission to hate, or some other vile calumny because the lesser of two evils is also a moral position I’m not for shifting from.

    I really feel desperately alone and disappointed by all this I have to tell you. It were as if there were nothing I could do or say to convince these people, these supposed left leaning one’s, recognise that the primary imperative is NOT to get rid of Gillard, but to see off Abbott.


    • Hypocritophobe March 12, 2013 at 5:27 pm #

      Pretty soon we won’t be able to see your proposed Labor reform agenda for the white flags.
      I am so glad we have real web activists lobbying to save us from the sloth and apathy of those who are allergic to any sign of heavy lifting.

      Hopefully they will fill the void created by the crumbling faux Labor makeover.
      What you must note about the Crikey post is that there is another group feeling the cold sword of betrayal who now see twins in the chamber.
      Those votes are not heading to either of the twins,so I think a new wholesale political paradigm gets closer every time.
      That can only be good news.Whatever it takes to get the politicians to listen and then act.Because clearly Tweedle Dumb and Tweedle Dumber are not the solution any more.
      Viva le wake up call.And not before time.

      Your last paragraph HG?
      “It were as if there were nothing I could do or say to convince these people, these supposed left leaning one’s, recognise that the primary imperative is NOT to get rid of Gillard, but to see off Abbott.”

      On the last blog your were selling this to readers via your reply to Ato.

      “I know you’re right and accept that given a non-Labor option that would effect better government then I’d probably vote Green or Independent ahead of Labor with the Liberals or Nationals down at the bottom and DLP or Family First dead last. ”

      What has changed, so quickly?
      Can’t you see the hypocrisy?

      No,of course you can’t.


      • hudsongodfrey March 12, 2013 at 6:20 pm #

        What seems to have changed as always is your interpretation of my position. These are two statements taken out of context in a longer exchange in which I’ve tried desperately hard to develop a more subtle and nuanced approach to solving a political problem. In trying as best I can to express myself I am showing willingness to be flexible about what is less important to me in order that I might emphasise what I find absolutely vital.

        Read as they were meant to be interpreted the second statement aludes to voting for anyone but Abbott, as means to a result that is entirely consistent with the first statement you’ve perloined. I stand by both of them!

        You’re so focused on your visceral hatred of Gillard that you’ve just about completely lost the plot. You’ve gone too far in mauling people who are basically on the same side of politics.

        For someone with your pseudonym you’ve really got to get a mirror!


        • Hypocritophobe March 12, 2013 at 6:33 pm #

          This is the position of one of the people you accuse me of mauling, and who likes to pretend.

          Position on Leigh sales crucifying Abbott ;

          “Wasn’t Leigh Sales wonderful last night; I have been waiting for someone to expose him as the nasty empty vessel he is…

          Thank you Leigh, you made my day!”

          Same persons position when sales interviewed Wong

          “Leigh Sales has lost my respect with her attack dog style of interviewing lately: she compared Julia’s mincing poodle to Abbott’s heartless comments about dying of shame.
          I was pleased how serene composed and to the point, Penny’s replies were. No attacks back, beautiful!

          What is it with Emma and Leigh lately, are they following orders?”
          Dear HG

          Spare me the lectures on mirrors and hypocrisy.

          And your changed position is just an instant back-flip.
          Lip service.


          • hudsongodfrey March 12, 2013 at 7:31 pm #

            Thanks for taking the time to reply your message has been directed to our first available consultant and should be ready for processing sometime in the next millennium.


            • Hypocritophobe March 12, 2013 at 8:44 pm #

              Green Sleeves never sounded so good.


    • samjandwich March 12, 2013 at 5:39 pm #

      Well for what it’s worth I’m with you on this Hudson. Whatever happened to the doctrine of the lesser of two evils? And just imagine if the unthinkable happened and Gillard actually won! Would that indeed spell the end for Abbott, and maybe even a clean slate?

      I don’t quite agree with the article’s contention that Gillard landed her position during a time when things were positive, and simply perperated her own stuff-ups from there. I’d maintain that the political landscape is dominated by a voting public who demand racist, sexist social policies and I really think anyone who goes against that is going to have to accept they’ll never lead. What went wrong I think is that Labor underestimated our lovely fellow Aussies’ sense of entitlement, which seems totally incongruous with their sense of there being a lack of entitlement on the part of anybody that isn’t themselves… but there you go. As a consequence, Labor put too much store in keeping the budget in surplus at a time when it was clearly not warranted, nor was it in line with Labor’s principles, simply to escape the criticism that they would have otherwise incurred from Joe Hockey – and this despite the fact that he’d be equally critical regardless of what they did.

      If they’d stuck to the line that a modest deficit constituted good economic management, and were less scrooge-like towards the most disadvantaged, things might have been different. I tell myself!


      • hudsongodfrey March 12, 2013 at 6:24 pm #

        Thanks Sam, it is harder these days to see Gillard or her policies prevailing when in the minds of many the ship simply cannot be steadied. But ‘scuse me if I ain’t for scuttling it just yet.


        • Hypocritophobe March 12, 2013 at 6:41 pm #

          Keep shuffling the deck chairs old bean.


          • hudsongodfrey March 12, 2013 at 7:34 pm #

            Sorry where am I expected to Photoshop Abbott’s head onto that one. As the captain of the ship perhaps?


            • Hypocritophobe March 12, 2013 at 8:42 pm #

              I have deleted this comment. And I’m really annoyed that I have to spend time trawling threads for abusive comments when I could be writing another post.

              If everyone who does it doesn’t stop doing it I’ll have to bring back moderation. Which will bloody well piss me off. Jennifer.


        • paul walter March 12, 2013 at 8:10 pm #

          I’m more a wavelength with yourself hg and believe or not, Sam Jandwich just now.
          I’ve said a million times that economic rationalism is a cancer killing the ALP.
          I agree there is an unhealthy symbiosis between public opinion and prejudice, manipulated by a ruling class itself derived of historical forces, but plucking out the other eye by installing black shirt Abbott, that is overtly embracing the new tyranny and demolishing more of what we used to call democracy, rather than merely paying reluctant or ignorant lip service to it to mediate on its worst features, is pointlessly absurb.
          Bet this what Hydro and Atomou seemingly want, having had their fill of too much sky falls in right wing media faux panic.
          They throw a child like tantrum at the misinformed and manipulated masses here, to be punished because other forces haven’t ended wars, poverty and refugee flows.
          But they would be better off considering who the REAL criminals as to global war and poverty are and understanding why the Developing world suffers, rather than trying to scapegoat the rest of us for the sins of those who actually run things.
          All they succeed in doing is reinforcing the system by so easily trashing Labor for things beyond its control, for Abbott represents the final triumph of DeMaistrean conservatism that overcomes the holding operation in place with a centrist government no matter how weak.
          So many Australians will find out soon, just how complacent they were during the good times and how readily they threw out a government that couldn’t do the impossible but served us well enough, comparatively speaking, as hudsongodfrey mentioned in his postings.
          If comes to a choice between your rationalism and their vicious pathology, I will take your lead anytime.


          • Hypocritophobe March 12, 2013 at 8:40 pm #

            Even though you know this is not true.
            “Bet this what Hydro and Atomou seemingly want, having had their fill of too much sky falls in right wing media faux panic.”
            You decided to write it anyway.

            You are a lost cause.
            If you think I am actually gullible enough to swallow the MSM crap,it explains why so many of you here are addicted to abandoning your principles.You are obviously devoid of perception, and have limited comprehension skills.

            Do you think Arbib is hiding his light under a bushel these days?
            Do you think Obeid is an aberration?
            Where do you suppose the idea to get rid of a bloke (Previous PM) who focussed the spotlight on those above came from?
            The coalition?
            The media?
            Do you think this power will regress if it’s rewarded with a second term?

            Don’t answer,I already know.


          • hudsongodfrey March 12, 2013 at 9:52 pm #

            Thanks for your supportive words, but I reserve the right to be wrong or to lead you up the garden path, if only in an effort to explore a few more options and keep an open mind. Some of the reason I share these thoughts with our disagreeable mates has to do with a feeling that there has to be something better than this being tempered mightily by the fear of something worse.


    • atomou March 12, 2013 at 6:13 pm #

      Hudso, sorry to see you becoming so unctuous – or were you ever thus?
      If I get offended by anything, it by the phrase, “I don’t want to offend you!”
      For Zeus’ sake, I am a grown up so grown up that by now I have lived through blatant, aggressive racism, chauvinism, sexism, capitalism and all the negative isms you can think of. Just say what you want and if you want to fill your utterances with four or five letter words than, apart from risking being boring, no grown up -other than BACWAs and hypocritical priests- will care. It is your message, its credibility, its wisdom, its insight that will be either accepted or rejected. Leave the “Not Want To Offend” placard to Pell and Abbott and… Gillard!
      There’s nothing more offensive than that phrase directed at you. It smacks violently of censorship and shackled speech!

      I have tried to explain to you that the words “punish” or “reward” are invalid in this debate. I am simply casting a vote, according to my civil rights (there are still some of them around even in Gillard’s Australia) and my conscience. Who gets punished and who gets rewarded is in the lap of the gods. Should I “reward” Gillard for her abject destruction of every human right in this country? Should I reward her for… well, I won’t go on relisting the litany of her atrocities but I do not vote in order to punish or to reward. Try and understand that. I vote according to the dictates of my own heart and mind. If they be wrong, then tuff titties. Like Popey once said, “I yam what I yam and that’s all I yam!” And, I’d say, Olive Oyl would probably say the same about herself.

      And, please, try not to cry when people do not agree with you, or won’t be converted to your religion! It’s most indecorous!


      • atomou March 12, 2013 at 6:16 pm #

        Popeye the sailor man…


        • hudsongodfrey March 12, 2013 at 7:36 pm #

          We could tell by the accent 😉


      • hudsongodfrey March 12, 2013 at 7:29 pm #

        I find it insulting to be called unctuous when I’m being genuine in trying to pay you a compliment, but it’s okay because after your closing remarks here I found myself wanting to take it back you sarky old bastard!

        And yes I take your point about offence, but I have noted before that you have had quick and visceral reactions in exchanges elsewhere about sexualisation and pornography that I took to be more emotionally grounded than I had the wit or talent to talk you out of. If I recall correctly you seem to think children should be protected from adult concepts whereas I don’t. Like most people I find myself unwilling to challenge parents on these matters and took you to be commenting in that vein. Am I wrong?

        So this thing called offence, though often indefensible, is known to exist and I think should not be offered gratuitously but only where unavoidable as means to help another person better understand that which it would be to their benefit to confront.

        I am nevertheless glad that you’ve enjoyed a full and varied experience of life and consider yourself resilient. Do you think perhaps that I have not lived or seem feeble in my approach to robust debate?

        If there has been a melding of your opinions with others in this debate to the extent that you think I put the words “reward” or “punish” in your mouth then I may have been mistaken. When I use them myself it is to indicate that the unintended consequence of voting a certain way may result in giving aid to the enemy. And by that I mean to say to you that when you weigh the dictates of your heart and mind maybe you should consider this to be a situation where the lesser if two evils is the best possible result. I hope it doesn’t infringe your civil rights to be told that if you engage in debates about politics people may offer opinons you disagree with.

        It is okay to disagree. This morning or prehaps last evening you listed nine points that were quite clear. I responded with the nine about which we may or may not agree to disagree. I thought well of your list and appreciated the effort that went into it, even if we don’t precisely concur on all points.


        • atomou March 12, 2013 at 8:53 pm #

          You’re getting desperate now, Hudso, bringing my visceral reaction to the topic of abuse and exploitation of children by sleazebag adults. Is that the only issue you found me having a visceral reaction to?
          Even though this is totally irrelevant here, let me quickly explain to you -since you didn’t understand me back through all those posts- what my position is.
          I would defend to my last breath the freedom of children to be children and free of exploitation by sleaze bag adults; and of adults who are in vulnerable circumstances. I shall do that with every fibre in my being.
          Henson the photographer to me, personified exactly the sort of person who ought to be kept away from minors. And by that I don’t mean Henson as that single individual. I wouldn’t know the man if he fell on me on a bright day. I mean the sort of person who will say to a child, “sweetheart, I’ll make you famous and give you lots of lollies, if you pose for me naked. It won’t hurt and you’ll have lots of fun…. good! Now sit like this, that’s right, perfect. Now sit like that… perfect… now lie down like this…”
          Nope! I get a visceral reaction just thinking about that slime ball.
          The usual excuse is that the parents were informed. That Henson was a famous photographer with lots of shit in the most renown galleries. He is well known by the parents. The parents talked to their little girl and she agreed…
          It’s all crap! The kid is a minor. SHe should not be put in the position of having to make a decision like that by anyone.
          Who knows how she will feel a year after that? Two years, a decade? She is a minor now and it is the now that matters.
          Parents? I don’t know what they’re like but I don’t think much of parents who will expose their child to this sort of treatment. But they could be drunks, junk heads, stupid, doing a favour to a friend, fame seekers, money grabbers, insensitive boors. The parents cannot be allowed to place their daughter in such a position. Full stop.
          The same with people who, for some reason or other cannot understand what they’re in for. Or do but are too poor, or too desperate to say no. Capitalist societies love this sort of thing: impoverish the masses and you can do what you like with them.
          Land lord’s nuptial rights are still held around the place. Babies are still married off (it’s our culture your Honour and our honour…)
          I certainly do get angry when people turn into pimps with too much alacrity. When they are too ready to trample upon the rights of others. When they are too quick to make a bargain over someone else’s rights.

          And I would think of you as a cad, Hudso, if I had asked for your help to save a child and you said no, let alone tried to stop me.

          Now see if you can find something else that might bring me in the opposite corner of the ring with Hypo.
          I have no problems at all with people who disagree with me. I have problems only with people who can’t accept that I’m not of the same mindset.
          I’ve yet to find anyone with whom I agree on everything. So it has always been, so it is now and so it will be until I cark it. It is the way of life and it is delicious.


          • hudsongodfrey March 12, 2013 at 9:46 pm #

            One of the reasons I have appreciated Jennifer’s perspectives has been for articles like these….


            I’m trying the best I can to say to you civilly that I agree that we need to accept that we’re not all of the same mindset. You are of the view I think that Henson took pictures of children because they were children and therefore noteworthy in an envelope pushing kind of way. And you may be right, I don’t know him from Adam either, and can thus say nothing of his motives. I see people projecting their fears about sexuality and taboos onto images that conjure none of those reactions in me and think it is a pity that a certain kind of beauty can’t be enjoyed for what it is because we’re too worried about what others will think. Or is it that we’re too worried about what we might think that makes us so uncomfortable?

            But you’re right. I might not try to stop you, I might err on the side of caution, but as a person who knows my own mind I should maintain the right to ask you why? What you think is so wrong about it, and I don’t think that I can, when two or three lines of explanation elicit such an outpouring of righteousness on your part as if you were the defender and arbiter of morality. As if I’d said or done something wrong. As if I’m meant to accept your rhetoric that abuse and exploitation exist when every reasonable effort to avoid that accusation has been made.

            If you want to be Hypo that is up to you. He has been deluded by a visceral hatred of Gillard that I understand comes about because she has dealt his idealism some blows. Maybe he cannot be blamed and should take it to heart that I also accept he and I are not of the same mindset. But hatred is such an ugly hat. And I had hoped you would know better.


            • atomou March 12, 2013 at 10:08 pm #

              Hudso, sorry, mate. That’s about as far as my generosity in indulging your endless merry-go-round goes. I’m not going to push the little horsey any more. Either get off or find someone else to push it for you.
              Broken records tend to irritate one after a while.


              • hudsongodfrey March 12, 2013 at 11:59 pm #

                Like I said it was best left alone in the first place. You ranted and I tried to clear the air.

                My original point about offence and my reasons what I wrote are I hope taken in the sense that they were offered, as a kindness and not an insult.

                It doesn’t dignify your position to find that the reason you’re miffed has less to do with merry-go-rounds and more to do with high horses!


            • Hypocritophobe March 12, 2013 at 10:52 pm #

              HELLO-o-o-oo- I’M STILL HE- – – – -RE !!!
              Does your computer have a third party app which licenses you to invisibility, or are are you posting from under your bed?
              I take back my analogy about African Hunting dogs.You Gillardettes are more like hyenas.
              Attack from behind, hoping a real predator can inflicted some damage.
              Avoid the face to face stuff whenever you can.


              • hudsongodfrey March 13, 2013 at 12:02 am #

                So you can’t agree to disagree in a civilised fashion.

                Would if make you feel better if I gratified your abuse by returning it, or do you want to know the real reason why I’ve stopped?

                It’s because you obsession with Gillard is boring!


                • Hypocritophobe March 13, 2013 at 12:41 am #

                  Whereas your obsession with defending her at all costs is ‘somehow’ riveting entertainment?
                  Politically Gillard is rightfully facing the death sentence and the best you can up with is ‘the other serial killer is worse’.
                  (Should I mention that ‘technically’ the other ‘alleged’ serial killer is yet to fire a shot in anger ?)
                  I guess, thanks to the compassion of her electoral firing squad, you may have won her a chance to slip in an extra lung buster before her final dawn.
                  I wonder if Nicola, “I’m outta here” Roxon, would approve?

                  You’re absolutely right, we DO disagree.


    • doug quixote March 13, 2013 at 9:21 am #

      You are not alone. Gillard is the lesser of two evils by a country mile.

      I am thoroughly pissed off with the Gillard hating Hypocrite.

      It has repeated the same nonsense for weeks without let up.

      Where is our host?


      • atomou March 13, 2013 at 10:07 am #

        Our host obviously believes in the most important element of democracy: freedom of speech; not freedom of speech only if the speech agrees with you in philosophy and style.

        Well done Jennifer!


      • Hypocritophobe March 13, 2013 at 10:30 am #

        Lost your front foot?

        Why was your heroin too scared to do a walk through the streets last week,DQ?.
        Perhaps the people of West Sydney believe they decide which politician gets the big job and under which circumstance they get it.


      • hudsongodfrey March 13, 2013 at 10:46 am #

        I think these forums thrive on robust debate, and can suffer a death when the conversation becomes boring and repetitious.

        I am inclined to make too many comments and at too great a length because I’m interested in the subject matter, but I hope at the point where I’m telling the same people the same things time and again I realise we’re circling the drain and give it away.

        I found Ellis blog something that could only be enjoyed in moderation because of the level of acrimony people indulge there. I didn’t want to get dragged into that either.

        I find that the ABC basically can’t be bothered hosting a conversation any longer.

        I was interested that Elizabeth for technical reasons or otherwise because she’s almost too civilised holds a more stilted conversation where it is just that bit harder for posters to engage one another.

        And here I fear that in the absence of our gracious host the party’s basically over and we’re entering that stage of clearing out the last of the drunken guests.

        Drunken seems apt because a sober person might occasionally work through his problems and reason with a little bit of give and take. Something I hope I’ve tried to do. But by now I’ve thoroughly sick of give and inch and take a mile, and tired of people defending idiotic ideological positions for the sake of their own foolish pride.

        I might as well be arguing with the religious!

        As far as I’m concerned some of this debate has reached the point where it is indistinguishable from what some trolls do. Talk about biting the hand that feeds! No respect has been shown for our host ever since the robust debate descended into point scoring.

        Sorry I didn’t see the time to depart earlier.

        If Jennifer posts a new topic then I’ll look in. If not then is there really any point?


        • atomou March 13, 2013 at 11:27 am #

          Hudso, allow me my penneth worth.
          Far too often, your wish to be conciliatory or balanced or give-and-take inches, leaves you sitting on a fence that swings wildly in the breeze. It’s a fence that few would would to climb and sit beside you because it is far too dangerous and far too unnecessary. In short, Hudso, you’re too tentative, too equivocal -just before you become too dogmatic!
          Just one tiny example of this, and really I don’t want you to examine this example to buggery. It is a mere example. Above you said this:
          “You are of the view… And you may be right…”
          Five bob each way but I lose if I come out at the end of the race, not agreeing with how you judge a winner.
          Bloody irritating. Frustrating. Cut the “he said she said” type of journalism and say, with no rubbery words what you want to say and let’s get on to it until the subject is exhausted; and then shut up about it.
          On the Labor/Gillard=Abbott/Lib question we could go back to the first dozen or so posts and all our views are there for all to see. After that, we see excruciating defence of the same positions, shifting of goal posts, perverting others’ utterances and, in short, a brothelising of an important discussion. Let’s, from now on, not bring discussions to that pass. Let’s just simply go away, pester someone else and come back when Jennifer has had the time to write another article, though I am fully aware of how packed her day must be without bothering with us here. We are not her children, we are not her charges, she is not responsible for our entertainment; and it does look like we are babies tugging at her sleeves.
          Unbecoming of adults.
          Stop it!


          • hudsongodfrey March 13, 2013 at 11:43 am #

            Thanks anyway, but it comes about because I’m less interested in just stating my opinion than I am in finding out what others think so I never want to be too closed to different ideas.


            • paul walter March 13, 2013 at 1:10 pm #

              Unlike so many others here.


              • atomou March 13, 2013 at 1:27 pm #

                Paul, Hudso does a Gillard well: He says he never wants to be (too?) closed to different ideas but his every idea, alas, I found an impenetrable fortress.


                • Hypocritophobe March 13, 2013 at 1:31 pm #

                  Solo Hyena (carrying a well-worn shovel) alert Ato.


  7. samjandwich March 12, 2013 at 5:18 pm #

    Ner ner, you guys got in trouble!!

    Haven’t read the offending material, but I gotta say that, regardless of what actually occurred I would wholeheartedly endorse the idea of tarring and feathering Paul, just on principle!


    • atomou March 12, 2013 at 7:05 pm #

      We guys just leeeeerv trouble!
      Let me remind you what perhja[s the greatest ever philosopher said once: To live! To live is to undo your belt and look for trouble!
      Zorba, via Nik Kazantzakis. “Zorba the Greek!”
      Mummy couldn’t work out why my pants kept falling down round me kneecaps!


      • samjandwich March 13, 2013 at 10:31 am #

        I’m glad you mentioned Zorba, Atomou-boy. A finer treatise on masculinity I have not seen anywhere.


    • paul walter March 12, 2013 at 10:31 pm #

      The feeling is mutual.


  8. jo wiseman March 12, 2013 at 10:30 pm #

    I don’t agree with atomou about the argy bargy and language. If people can’t do better than insult and accuse me when I have a point to make, there’s no discussion.
    In the absence of other points to make though, I’m not above a little schadenfreude. I must say I am surprised to find out what a delicate little flower PW turned out to be; appealing to JW for assistance with Hypo.


    • paul walter March 12, 2013 at 10:32 pm #

      You are a content-free zone, jo wise arse


      • jo wiseman March 12, 2013 at 10:41 pm #

        When you’re right, you’re right, luv, unless glee counts as content.


        • Hypocritophobe March 12, 2013 at 10:46 pm #


          Farkn hell jo,
          LOOK OUT!!!
          Would you like some Betadine for that mortal limp lettuce bruise?


          • paul walter March 12, 2013 at 10:52 pm #



            • Hypocritophobe March 12, 2013 at 11:03 pm #



  9. Forrest Gumpp (@ForrestGumpp) March 13, 2013 at 10:01 am #

    For Gerard:


    • atomou March 13, 2013 at 10:22 am #

      The stats are monstrous.
      “Welcome to the Netherlands: purer than the driven snow; purer than all the countries occupied by the anglo saxons… ”
      A most charming place where the windows are never blinded and the laws are never mowed. Flowers sprouting out of every orifice on the land!


      • atomou March 16, 2013 at 9:42 am #

        Lawns, not Laws! But then again, one might wish to ask the question about Dutch laws…
        I said, “might wish.”


  10. samjandwich March 13, 2013 at 10:18 am #

    Just in case any of you twerps is in Sydney (or more saliently, and more sensible readers who manage to keep your internal ruminations to yourselves), i thought this film screening on Thursday might be of interest:


  11. Hypocritophobe March 13, 2013 at 11:09 am #

    Well,well I never thought I would see the day.And here it is.
    Enter the bleach,swipe cards and security guards, and roll out the razor wire.
    Crank up the political filter.Your post awaits moderation.
    Are you over 18?

    I believe the religious analogy is absolutely apt.

    “Thou shalt have no other God/s before thee.”
    Vote accordingly.Or else.


    • samjandwich March 13, 2013 at 11:29 am #

      What are you talking about?


      • Hypocritophobe March 13, 2013 at 11:47 am #

        Look up ^


  12. samjandwich March 13, 2013 at 12:12 pm #

    Oh – you mean my link? I can see it perfectly. At least the system isn’t hiding people’s own pasts from them yet… though I’m sure it’s in the post.


    • Hypocritophobe March 13, 2013 at 12:34 pm #

      No,sorry,I was referring to the towel being thrown in.

      As for your link I hope as many people as possible attend the Sydney thing and more importantly take the next step.
      That is, demanding a political solution not driven by dog whistling.
      If that means electorally turfing people out,so be it.However I think people will vote with their usual priorities.

      You’re right about the hiding bit.
      SHY tried to film Gillards offshore detention centres.Look how they shut that down quick smart.
      If the Afghanis who are soon forced to return,meet a grisly end,you will only hear about through independent news sources.


      • Marilyn March 14, 2013 at 11:27 pm #

        Today approximately 30 families and children were transferred from Manus
        camp to Inverbrackie detention facility in South Australia.
        Many of the mothers are pregnant and were told that they would not be
        transferred to Australia but would have their babies in the
        primitive hospital on Manus. These women are taking Malaria tablets
        which puts them further at risk.
        Someone has relented or possibly the PNG authorities have refused the
        women, hence the transfers.

        Sadly a Howard government strategy has been included. This is to
        separate families to ensure compliance.
        An Iraqi mother and her 8 year old daughter were sent leaving the
        father and son behind in Manus. The child has a blood disease and
        serious ear infection.
        They were told that they would be sent back as soon as the child recovered.

        This was a standard Howard /Ruddock ploy when children were sent from
        Nauru for medical reasons. Mothers and siblings were left.
        Surely by any standard this is nasty brutish and cruel.


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