Scott Morrison. Racism. The facts.

14 Jun

Racism: (just to refresh our memories)

1. the belief that human races have distinctive characteristics which determine their respective cultures, usually involving the idea that one’s own race is superior and has the right to rule or dominate the others.

2. offensive or aggressive behaviour to members of another race stemming from such a belief.

3. a policy or system of government and society based upon it. (Macquarie Dictionary)

Morrison sees votes in anti-Muslim strategy. The opposition immigration spokesman, Scott Morrison, urged the shadow cabinet to capitalise on the electorate’s growing concerns about “Muslim immigration”, “Muslims in Australia” and the “inability” of Muslim migrants to integrate…But after Mr Morrison’s comments this week on the cost of asylum-seeker funerals and his role in the controversial decision to cut a Howard government program to fund schools in Indonesia, colleagues are privately questioning whether he is trying to pursue an anti-Muslim political strategy unilaterallysources say Mr Ruddock, the shadow cabinet secretary, was particularly “blunt” in his rejection of the suggestion, saying a well-run and non-discriminatory immigration policy was essential for nation building.
Lenore Taylor, Sydney Morning Herald, February 17 2011. [emphasis mine]

Ugly game of race baiting. Morrison decided to see if he could win some political points by inflaming racism and resentment. More specifically, he zeroed in on some of the most vulnerable people in the country for political advantage.

Morrison publicly raised objections to the government’s decision to pay for air fares for some of the survivors of the Christmas Island boat wreck to travel to Sydney for the funerals of their relatives.

Some were Christian funerals, others were Muslim. But all of them were foreigners, all of them were boat people, all of them were dark-skinned, and to Morrison that made them all fair game. Peter Hartcher, SMH, February 19 2011.

From the blog of well-known free speech advocate Andrew Bolt comes this quote from ABC journalist Stephen Long. I am obliged to reference Mr Bolt’s blog because it appears the ABC have removed this episode of The Drum Online from their website. Mr Long was a panellist on The Drum earlier this week. Along with other panellists he was invited to express his opinion on various topical issues. With reference to the Coalition’s recent comments on immigration policy, Mr Long observed:

I think that it is a cynical manipulation of an underlying prejudice in the Australian community and that it has very little policy merit. It is fraught with problems and it is really awful actually and I think Scott Morrison in particular as a spokesman in this area has just pushed way beyond acceptability in a way that he is willing to pander and manipulate that level of prejudice in what is essentially a racist manner. He is my local member in the electorate for Cronulla, the scene of the Cronulla riots …

Mr Long’s opinion was consistent with that of some of Mr Morrison’s political colleagues, and other journalists. However, Mr Morrison demanded an apology from the ABC for Mr Long’s remarks. The ABC aquiesced, and the apology was delivered on air yesterday evening by the show’s host, Steve Cannane.

This leads me to wonder why it is acceptable to describe someone as “pursuing an anti Muslim strategy unilaterally” but unacceptable to describe that activity as “racist” (refer to definition of racism above). Perhaps there is a way of pursuing an anti Muslim strategy unilaterally that is not racist? Perhaps the activity is indeed racist (check definition again) but under no circumstances are we allowed to say so?

Colour me confused.

On his website Mr Morrison, who is a member of the Assemblies of God Pentecostal Church, writes: “My Christian faith remains the driving force for my family, beliefs and values.”

Note to commenters: As Mr Morrison appears to be sensitive at the moment and may even incline towards litigation, please take care not to leave any comments that might be construed as defamatory.


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189 Responses to “Scott Morrison. Racism. The facts.”

  1. Colin Mackay June 14, 2012 at 6:36 am #

    Seems to me we are beleaguered by ‘christian nationalists’ here, and the world over. Largely invisible, their existence is premised on the ‘demonisation’ literally, of ‘other’. Sadly, most ‘members’ don’t even realise they joined. According to Chrys Stevenson they have taken over the Qld lib/nationals, they very nearly took over the NSW humanist branch a couple of years ago and I have no doubt they are present at most atheist/humanist/feminist and skeptic meetups. Probably time to call a spade a spade and a xian nationalist a nazi!

  2. doug quixote June 14, 2012 at 6:38 am #

    Well said Jennifer. That the ABC will apologise is an absolute disgrace. Let Morrison go on the program and defend his stance, if he can.

    • Susie June 14, 2012 at 7:14 am #

      A lot of commentary has pointed out some of the offensive statements and disrespectful, rude treatment that the PM has received at the hands of ABC journos and no apology has been forthcoming for any of that. The suspicion that the ABC has been taken hold of by the Liberal party plants from the Howard years,courtesy of Mark Scott is confirmed by this latest effort in my view. But the PM does not run to the lawyers every time someone suggests she be taken out to sea in a sack and drowned. Perhaps she should

      • helvityni June 14, 2012 at 8:49 am #

        Susie, this what have suspected for some time now, Tony Jones owes PM quite a few apologies….OK, I can still take the bantering about her jackets but Jones’ behaviour towards Julia has very often been down right disgraceful..
        If the French laughed at their leaders outfits, I would understand it, but Australia…give me a break.

        Anyhow I’ll give Q&A a miss, at least I can watch 7.30 now that Lee Sales is back

        • Di Pearton June 14, 2012 at 9:08 am #

          Yes, I have watched my last episode of Tony Jones, sorry, I mean Q&A.

        • Steve at the Pub June 16, 2012 at 2:57 pm #

          Cease panicking people. The ABC may not be as hard-core left a mouthpiece as is SBS, but it is far from right-wing, very far.

    • Marilyn June 15, 2012 at 5:50 am #

      What he said was true and very mild compared to my language when I set eyes on Morrison

      • paul walter June 15, 2012 at 7:59 am #

        This character may end up being the worst of the lot, given what he’s already showed and in such a short time.

  3. Di Pearton June 14, 2012 at 7:40 am #

    Grahame Morris said about Julia Gillard that Australians “ought to be kicking her to death”, Tony Jones shows open hatred on Q&A, but the ABC does not apologise, because the PM does not request an apology.
    Maybe she is made of sterner stuff, but such unprofessional journalism affects us, as viewers of the ABC, as employers of the ABC. And maybe we should be asking for an apology?

    • paul walter June 14, 2012 at 10:09 am #

      Deliberate dumbing down, Di. They are actually getting rid of their old audience for one more amenable to tabloid culture- hence the increased level of junk and promos there, for a crack at future privatisation.
      Some one should kick Grahame Morris to death.
      This vile hobgoblin, this poison dwarf, so grates on my nerves, particularly after all this time.

      • Di Pearton June 14, 2012 at 11:03 am #

        ‘vile hobgoblin’- GOLD! Are they a sub-species? Seems Graham Morris, John Howard, Tony Abbott , have similar physical goblinesque featues!

        • paul walter June 15, 2012 at 7:57 am #

          No, no that ‘s dead right. The physiognomy thing, you “get” a person’s nature through their face. That comment is so right. Abbott with his eyes close together, down cast and shifting from side to side, or peering down that hokey goblin beak of his.
          On the news, he piously carped about a dirt squad of Labor’s Labor, when Abbott himself was legendary for dirty tricks as Howard’s attack dog.
          This entire batch would not have a sensitive bone in their bodies, between the lot of them.
          Rorschatch the lot, I reckon.

          • gerard oosterman June 15, 2012 at 8:25 am #

            Not only that but what is it about those mouths that makes me think of those packets of DEB instant mashed potatoes. I get this strong feeling, no evidence mind you, that they have been fed lots of it during childhood. This eventually shaped their mouths with lower lips almost perpetually on standby to yet again get another spoonful of DEB instant potato. (mixed with water)

      • Di Pearton June 14, 2012 at 11:04 am #

        *features

  4. Laura June 14, 2012 at 7:48 am #

    So you can be a racist, but you can’t be called one in Australia.

    • paul walter June 14, 2012 at 10:03 am #

      Depends if they’re bikies or not and how game you are.

  5. Moody Cow June 14, 2012 at 8:00 am #

    To clarify:

    Applying this definition of racism, is the Coptic Christian minority in Egypt is the victim of racism? Are the restrictions on non-Muslim Malays in Malaysia an example of racism?

    O.o

  6. gerard oosterman June 14, 2012 at 8:32 am #

    Scott Morisson is a typical product of an utterly suburban and isolated environment. Anglo to his boot straps. Mix in the combination of sport and religion,often a heady uncompromising culture as well, and it would have been surprising to have found he would/could have escaped his doomed destiny.

    It wasn’t just accidental that the race riots a few years ago happened in that same area. ( Port Hacking)

    • paul walter June 14, 2012 at 10:14 am #

      Isn’t he a cretin, Gerard.
      I remain gobsmacked thinking on that stuff a couple of months about asylum seekers being “unhygienic” and the guy ought to be tipped head first into a barrel full of dead sheep’s digestive tracts.

    • ian somerville June 14, 2012 at 10:14 am #

      gerard you sound like you just got off the boat mate from the neither here nor there lands.look in the mirror and judge yersel!!

      • gerard oosterman June 14, 2012 at 10:28 am #

        Careful Ian,

        I used to be the ‘Sun-kissed God of the Surf’ many years ago. So proud with my balsa wood surf board at Mona Vale. I was polo necked, golden chained Prince of Passion, adored by Susies and Gregs alike.
        Just off the boat? Ah, ha …ha..ha. Probably born before your time, cobber.

      • Jennifer Wilson June 14, 2012 at 10:29 am #

        We generally enjoy a higher level of discussion here. Lift your game please Ian, or bugger off.

        • Hypocritophobe June 14, 2012 at 12:03 pm #

          JW,
          He’s a troll using anothers name.

    • Will June 14, 2012 at 3:44 pm #

      Why do you presume that being suburban equates to being narrow-minded? The outer-suburbs often have larger populations of people from non-speaking English backgrounds.

      I don’t see why his presumed ethnicity also requires mentioning. It would be ghastly for people to think Geert Wilders’ views were due to his ethnicity. I imagine you would be appalled.

      Scott Morrison is indeed a grub and should be deplored for his views, but the stereotyping, I believe is unnecessary.

      • gerard oosterman June 14, 2012 at 4:49 pm #

        Will,
        Your reply has a familiar ring to it and I am surel we have met somewhere before. Of course there is safety in the pseudonym especially when changed so often.

        There is indeed something about suburbia that I am known for to abhor and indeed have eschewed ever since those first few years back in the fifties. Those lonely walks to and from Revesby railway station through deserted streets. Workman’s rail ticket tucked away in my pocket. The houses all blind folded with occupants carefully out of sight but not so the petuniated rockeries all carefully manicured and sole witness to the cricket score in simmering heat and yearly cracker night.

        Those few years left its mark. How could one escape? I did.

        Don’t take all this too seriously ‘Will’. I am a dinky di Aussi and would not write or care if it wasn’t for those Revesby years. So, it did some good after all.

        As for Geert Wilders….. The very reason why I am sure we know each other.

        • Will June 14, 2012 at 5:13 pm #

          Hi Gerard,

          I can give you assurances that this is indeed my name, and not a pseudonym. I can guarantee that we have not corresponded before, also.

          I would not attempt to dispute that suburbia hasn’t got limited appeal, its blandess and sterility being obvious. I responded to your post, a little enthusiastically, fearing it was drawn from limited contact with suburbia, which is difficult to understand given most Australians live in suburbia.

          Apologies for mentioning Geert Wilders and any offence I may have caused. My point I was trying to make was ill-worded. What I was trying to articulate is that I felt it was wrong to attribute Morrison’s ethnicity to his racist views. Teresa Gambarro’s jibe about smelly migrants and Sophie Mirabella’s views demonstrate that being from a non-Anglo background and holding racist opinions are not mutually-exclusive.

          My post was not to catch you out as an Anglo-hating migrant, just expressing my bemusement at what you wrote.

          P.S: Apologies for any offence caused, it was not my intention.

          • hudsongodfrey June 14, 2012 at 5:34 pm #

            Will,

            I don’t think you can attribute anyone’s ethnicity to their racist views. This is the sort of thing may just about work in a Michael Jackson joke. Maybe you just have your words the away round wrong?

            As for Gerard’s point I read to mean that he attributed Morrison’s views to his social and cultural background, And in so doing I think Gerard quite accurately discerns that what we call racism is in fact a form of modern day tribalism. Often borne of resentment among people who are the most socially or economically disenfranchised. It often has little to do with anything beyond wanting to feel a sense of superiority over minority groups in the community who they’re able to dominate.

            After this I mean to contact Mike Godwin directly and have him make a new law for Geert Wilders.

            • Will June 14, 2012 at 5:45 pm #

              Hudson,

              I didn’t attribute anyone’s ethnicity to their racist views, only trying to highlight that we sometimes pretend only Anglo-Aussies hold those views.

              I agree with your second paragraph. Racism can be viewed as a form of tribalism, a fear of the other. However I don’t believe Morrison is what you could describe as socially or economically disenfranchised.

              Indeed, contact Mike Godwin, I acknowledge it was unnecessary.

              • hudsongodfrey June 14, 2012 at 7:32 pm #

                The key to my first point would be in re-reading your own post Will. It seemed to me that you got the order of words tangled.

                It doesn’t so much matter whether Morrison himself is sitting in the cheap seats as preaching to them. And honestly he really is scraping the lowest abyss of a very deep barrel here given that the contemporary debate around these issues has already been a race to the bottom.

                And the Godwin aside was more an attempt at a running joke based on an exchange around another recent article here. But I admire your sense of decorum nonetheless.

            • gerard oosterman June 14, 2012 at 6:04 pm #

              You always manage to come up with the right answer. Is it the Hudson in you? Always generous in giving breadth of vision.

          • gerard oosterman June 14, 2012 at 5:37 pm #

            Apologies accepted but no apology needed for mentioning ratbag Geert Wilders. He would have suffered intoxication from zinc alume fencing and overdosed on outlaying Rozella Circuits also, if having lived at the back of Routie-Hill RSL.for too long.

            • Will June 14, 2012 at 8:10 pm #

              Hudson,

              A careful re-reading of my post has alerted me to the incorrect word order of which you spoke of. One should really be more careful with what they post on the net.

              Thanks again,

              Will.

        • Hypocritophobe June 14, 2012 at 5:18 pm #

          Were you crossing OVER a bridge when you first met,Will Gerard?
          Will/William/Bill/Billy/Billy goat……..

          Where will it lead us?

          • gerard oosterman June 14, 2012 at 5:57 pm #

            I so wished it would have been under the bridge with a bottle of plonk. Things would have sorted themselves out.. alas, it’s getting late and it’s time for a replay of ‘Le piano du pauvre’.

        • Steve at the Pub June 14, 2012 at 5:25 pm #

          In my experience, the narrowest minds tend to be in inner city suburbs. Those who believe themselves to be “enlightened”, usually by dint of a liberal arts degree or something.

          They are in fact, inclined to be shockingly narrow minded. Though rarely have the self-awareness to realise it.

          • gerard oosterman June 14, 2012 at 5:59 pm #

            Rest assured Steve. An auto-didact.

            • Steve at the Pub June 14, 2012 at 6:09 pm #

              Heh heh hee….

          • doug quixote June 14, 2012 at 7:00 pm #

            You must be joking. It is far easier to be narrow minded in a small heterogenous community, where all you see every day are people in your own demographic and ethnic group. Inner city suburbs in Sydney and Melbourne, at least, don’t answer the description.

            • Hypocritophobe June 14, 2012 at 8:24 pm #

              Yep spot on.
              The small country town where I was born(never lived there) but a lot of rellies still do,is rife with narrow minded racist red necks, as are most of the communities out there.

              It is duplicated in PUB cultures and outback isolated rural habitations as well.I know from first hand experience, and no amount of apologist trolling can reinvent that fact.

              You would not believe the overt anti-indigenous mentality which dominates the top end, in the pastoral properties.
              Patronising ‘speak’, (“He’s not bad for a black fulla”)and exploitation (we’ll use this ‘one’ for labour and/or for footy) , are considered to be going above and beyond their role as white benefactors.
              I can tell you now that at half time at the indigenous rodeo in Derby,not one single aboriginal got invited over to the BBQ across the road,despite them being employees and workmates, and despite being in a relationship with white stockmen,the women kept clear too.

              One of the favourite BBQ laughing points was how a ‘little black fulla’ broke his arm, in a violent fashion, getting flung off a bull.
              How BBQ ‘whitey’ wished he could have it on action replay to see it, again and again.

              And the galling sight of a big fat white lessee screaming at little indigenous kids to come down from a tree they were watching the rodeo from,because he didn’t like it.
              I won’t repeat the expletives.

              (This was a dry rodeo)
              The BBQ of course, was not. 25 metres away and the swilling was in full view.

              This overt racism thrives in many places.
              I’ve seen it often.It has shamed me.
              There is a special ‘hatred’ and intolerance reserved for indigenous people in this country.

              There is no sense anyone in Canberra denying we have racism everywhere in this nation, and that politicians on both sides use it to further their cause.
              We can expose the Libs no more than they do,themselves.
              But I don’t see too many examples of Labor biting back,either.
              So it comes as no surprise that the hollow shells of Canberra milk the votes whenever they can.

              In the end though,this tactic works.
              (The same caustic Howard era Liberal spin doctor is sure to be knee deep in this.)

              The irony is that when the Islamic football gets kicked around,the Indigenous one sometimes gets a spell on the bench.
              That said, I see the intervention grinds on.
              Are there TWO different major parties?
              really?

            • Steve at the Pub June 14, 2012 at 8:24 pm #

              Dream on Duggie. There is none so blind as those who believe they can already see. There is narrow-mindedness aplenty in such small heterogenous communities, but they don’t have a monopoly on it.

              You’ll find as much narrow-mindedness among uni students & white collar graduates in the inner cities.

              Such communities aren’t nearly as diversified as they believe themselves to be.

              The most pig-headed narrow minded people I’ve ever met are inner city dwellers, in middle class white collar occupations. And I’ve been in some extremely insular heterogenous communities, most of whom at least realise there is a world out there, are often keen to learn about other cultures & aren’t near as swift to judge the “other”.

            • doug quixote June 14, 2012 at 9:49 pm #

              (Blushes) Did I write ‘heterogenous’? I meant homogeneous of course. Post in haste, repent at leisure.

            • Marilyn June 15, 2012 at 5:53 am #

              Yes and he works in Parliament house with wall to wall white faces.

            • Steve at the Pub June 16, 2012 at 4:40 pm #

              Preview is your friend Doug.
              We’ll have to call that one a senior moment, as she’s rather a struggle to put it down to either a typo or “sticky key”, (Detrius under my keys, from eating sesame seed buns, is responsible for most of my typos.)

            • doug quixote June 16, 2012 at 6:45 pm #

              Try “detritus” Mr Know it all at the pub. It is one thing to know that you have made a mis-speak, and another not to know any such thing at all. Fuck off.

            • Steve at the Pub June 16, 2012 at 7:14 pm #

              You’e a pretty nasty piece of work aren’t you Dougie. Perhaps you’ll be sober in the morning, & be able to express yourself more coherently.

            • doug quixote June 16, 2012 at 7:25 pm #

              Pretty clear I would have thought, Mr Know it all at the Pub. You don’t know much at all, do you?

              You are merely trolling here. Don’t expect any further feeding from me.

            • Steve at the Pub June 16, 2012 at 9:01 pm #

              Dougie, you aren’t a class act on the slops. You’d do well to consider signing the pledge.

  7. Steve at the Pub June 14, 2012 at 8:41 am #

    I’ll have to swallow my distaste for religious types & back Scott Morrison on the first part.

    The government has never financed my travel to a funeral, ergo, Scott Morrison is RIGHT (correct, on the side of the angels, spot on, etc etc) in his views on that point. (footnote: Illegal arrivals aren’t the only people for whom the government finances travel to funerals, but that is another story)

    • helvityni June 14, 2012 at 8:54 am #

      Steve, with that kind of an attitude do not expect too many folks at your funeral….unless you pay someone to attend before your parting :)

      • Steve at the Pub June 14, 2012 at 9:19 am #

        I’m confused Helvi, are you saying that the government should pay the travel for all funeral attendees? Or that because I believe the government has a double standard on paying for funeral travel, that I do not deserve anybody to attend my funeral?

        Why does Australia have this racist double standard? That is, pay travel for “brown, non-citizen, poor etc” people to travel to the funeral of relatives, but not for other people to do the same?

        Does the government pay for an anglo-saxon old age pensioner in, say, Charleville, to travel to, say, Perth, for the funeral of a relative?

        • helvityni June 14, 2012 at 9:53 am #

          I’m speechless, I’m stunned by heartlessness of our Liberal politicians and by your comment here…few dollars to assist the have-nots, and you question that.
          I don’t know about OZ but at least in England the 10% of all funerals are pauper burials and are paid by the state.

          • Steve at the Pub June 14, 2012 at 10:07 am #

            My comment stuns you? Stand by then, for I’ve a lifetime of common sense behind me that is sure to stun the living daylights out of you!

            Do you understand the difference between a pauper burial & chartering a jet plane to ferry relatives to a funeral?

            • helvityni June 14, 2012 at 10:18 am #

              Yes, Steve, I understand the difference, but we are not talking about big money in either case, are we…

            • Jennifer Wilson June 14, 2012 at 10:31 am #

              Do you understand the difference between discussion and abuse, Steve?

            • Steve at the Pub June 14, 2012 at 10:45 am #

              That’s a low one & unbecoming of you Jennifer. I’d be one of the few commenters here who not only understands that difference, but observes it.

          • jo wiseman June 14, 2012 at 10:56 am #

            I do. Discussion is when you address the issue about funerals. Abuse is when you respond saying they shouldn’t expect anyone at their funeral and Liberals are heartless.

            • jo wiseman June 14, 2012 at 11:04 am #

              Let’s add to abuse christian nationalists are no good, Australian outfits are no good, “Some one should kick Grahame Morris to death. This vile hobgoblin, this poison dwarf, so grates on my nerves, particularly after all this time.”, Anglos are no good, sports players are no good, religious people are no good,

            • helvityni June 14, 2012 at 11:10 am #

              jo, I put a smiley on my post to Steve to indicate that I was being light-hearted, I also said Liberal politicians, not Liberals in general, some of them are my best friends because they happen to have big hearts….

            • Hypocritophobe June 14, 2012 at 11:36 am #

              You forgot a few.
              Here’s a microscopic sample.
              The rampant sex abuse by the church,the subsequent cover ups and denials.
              The support for selective charities while others die.
              The attempt to stifle debate on ssm with the misuse of Drs qualifications.
              The use of Nazi terminology in the same debate.
              The hypocrisy of Libs wanting cheap labour while they shut the place down-and (turn away genuine refugees who can work),sack tens-000’s of public servants.
              The hypocrisy of blogging foreigners posing as Australians,who have/continue to masquerade as ‘concerned’ about foreign ownership while their beloved State Libs sell half of the Kimberley and top end.Their heros dig up their entire backyards for wealthy multinationals.(It’s OK for tens of thousands of foreign boats to come here,as long as they are crewed by slave labour,arrive empty and take our grandchildren’s fiscal legacy away for short term gain)Who deny that AWB were crooks-who risked the lives of thousands.
              The rampant duplicity and gutlessness of saying “I’m not a racist but” and then hiding behind a million anonymous names and Avatars,spreading racism and hate in every waking hour, on every internet corner.
              The spinelessness of turning feral and then trolling and abusing to shut down discussion/debate.
              The double standards of claiming God and being evil.
              The ‘we choose who to save and what colour skin they have’ brigade.
              The infantile demands for litigation by those who ‘allege’ to support free speech and yet suppress it simultaneously.
              Coming to a polling booth near you to hand out How To vote cards.
              You wont miss them.
              The pamphlets (like the person holing them) is blue ribbon,through and through.
              Spare me the astringent tears,pu-leeze…

              By the way,remember who starts,perpetuates and finishes all this dog whistling.
              And what motivates them.
              Hint, look for pale skin, certain religious affiliations etc.

            • helvityni June 14, 2012 at 12:00 pm #

              Yes,Jen, top marks for Hypo for this one!

            • hudsongodfrey June 14, 2012 at 12:46 pm #

              Wow Hypo,

              The animated accompaniment to this epic post would show a 200+ year time lapse of Australian History followed from the point of view of an ageless Aboriginal elder. Watching as we came into the land as convicts swarming over it, building our cities and driving out his people. Pausing later in a tourist gift shop where our protagonist finds a snow dome with the snow drifting down over a dessert scene, a label on the bottom says Greetings from Maralinga. We progress through images of Surfers, Hippies, Bikies and Drug Wars to a time in the near future when Western culture driven by uncontrollable malignancy finally commits the inevitable act of nuclear suicide. As the old man returns to his campfire scratching his head, “What the Fuck was that!”

            • samjandwich June 14, 2012 at 3:55 pm #

              Go Hypo!

              You know, I’m so lonely. Sometimes I feel as though my only social outlet is the pages of Sheep, that isolated oasis where the products of brains and social consciences can be found in combination. Why is it so rare?

              Jennifer for President!

              • Jennifer Wilson June 14, 2012 at 5:24 pm #

                No, I just want to stay here doing this with you & everyone.

        • hudsongodfrey June 14, 2012 at 11:30 am #

          That confusion you’re suffering from Steve is called cognitive dissonance. It happens when your conscience struggles against defending what you know is indefensible.

          You simply can’t argue the funerals in isolation from the fact that these were people who were locked up for non-crimes in an unconscionable fashion. Their status as aliens is legal under the terms of the refugee conventions we’re signatory to. Whereas their condition of being unwanted is merely an extension of the callous notion that an accident of birth guarantees some kind of privilege in the world today. The former is neglectful, and the later clearly racist.

          We should pay out of shame!

          • helvityni June 14, 2012 at 11:33 am #

            Ten out of ten for this one, Hudson, and not a word too many :)

            • hudsongodfrey June 14, 2012 at 11:43 am #

              Thanks Helvi, and never mind I kind of blew myself out with a more fulsome response to the issue of racism in general below.

            • doug quixote June 14, 2012 at 7:08 pm #

              None of your posts are ‘fulsome’, HG.

              fulsome : “Synonyms: adulatory, gushing, gushy, hagiographic (also hagiographical), oily, oleaginous, soapy, unctuous”

              the word derives from ‘foolish’. It is ambiguous at best and should be avoided.

          • Jennifer Wilson June 14, 2012 at 11:51 am #

            AND HE NAILS IT AGAIN!!!!!!

          • Steve at the Pub June 14, 2012 at 3:44 pm #

            Er.. Hudso, we still shouldn’t pay. We have nothing to be ashamed of, etc etc.

            Interesting point, but why do we charter jets for those illegals to attend a funeral, but I’m not shouted a ride (any ride) to a relative’s funeral in another state?

            • hudsongodfrey June 14, 2012 at 4:27 pm #

              Are you unlawfully imprisoned Steve?

            • Steve at the Pub June 14, 2012 at 5:19 pm #

              Not as yet, (but this is written before I announce that I’m doubling the price of a glass of beer due to the “carbon tax”.)

            • doug quixote June 14, 2012 at 7:10 pm #

              If you double the price of anything you are not only a fool but breaking the law. The rise attributable to the carbon price might be a few cents.

            • Steve at the Pub June 14, 2012 at 8:25 pm #

              That is probably what will have me unlawfully imprisoned!

            • Steve at the Pub June 16, 2012 at 4:47 pm #

              Actually Doug, I’m not breaking any law, no matter what I double in price. Nothing I sell has a law regulating the price.
              The price rise of a glass of beer might be a few cents (I’d be interested to see your calculations on that), but some other stuff I sell is likely going to rise quite a lot.
              That I’ll be passing on. I’d be a fool not to.

          • AJ June 15, 2012 at 12:48 pm #

            I was somewhat gratified to read the earlier post pointing out the inherent racism especially in small country communities and outback…..I don’t feel quite so isolated now that I know someone else sees it too. Originally when I arrived outback I thought it was simple white vs “other than white” redneck racism but I now truly believe that in a lot of cases the whole argument is about money, who pays for it and who receives it – an example being a young aboriginal girl that started work at the place I was working outback, within 4 weeks of starting she at 18 bought a brand new utility to the amazement of the 300 or so other tradesmen, office staff etc. She was a friendly willing young trainee in the workplace and was not any trouble or difficult to work with. The amount of under the breath abuse she started to receive therefore astonished me! When I asked one of my colleagues what this was all about he said he resented having to work so hard to pay taxes (12 hour days in the outback sun in his case) and she could just wait until her family (who’s “tribe” was now rather diminished in numbers) received their welfare cheque. It was an often recurring theme, resentment at the perceived huge amount of welfare, free housing, fortnightly cheques etc – and the perception that this was wasted on grog, VB, kava and $10,000 buy in poker schools in some of the remote communities. The NLC and indigenous politicians like to paint the picture of uniform deprivation across the remote community towns (eg Q&A’s time spent on Utopia) but I know from my own experience that indigenous leaders themselves and elders deplore this attitude especially when they have successfully managed cattle stations, remote radio stations, and self funded housing projects with well cared for kids – (Damn fine muso’s too – a particular passion of mine). No one likes to branded a hopeless loser! The most recent example of this occurred with the governments $650 million boost to indigenous welfare in the recent budget. Given the hard work most of the non-recipients (read mostly white although some asian) have to put in just to get by I can start to understand the resentment. I don’t really believe this resentment is racially based. Most seem to be accepting of their non white neighbours without trouble. I think its men in particular that tire of forever working, paying taxes etc and never ever being the beneficiaries,ie its about money. More evidence of my slowly formed view was the open admiration by the same white menfolk of the talent in the AFL side regardless of skin colour. Both white and non white people outback and in small towns suffer poverty in money, access to health services, housing etc, but only one identified cultural group gets help. I have no problem with those deserving it getting welfare since I am wealthy enough to not need it but when I see the uneveness in the non-equal approach to its allocation I start to wonder where people get their ideas from!

            • Hypocritophobe June 15, 2012 at 1:52 pm #

              People deny many things,racism and anti-indigenous sentiment included.

              http://www.abc.net.au/news/2010-07-19/alice-springs-thugs-acting-like-the-kkk/910478

              It doesn’t mean they aren’t.There may be an element of envy,but don’t let that cloud the issue.
              If the 18YO girl was non indigenous-(read white/Asian whatever),would the topic in the conversation have been about resentment or $ envy?
              (Quite probably if she was dark skinned or Islamic)
              Whenever (most often than not) an aboriginal is spotted in a flash car in any rural community,99.9% of the non indigenous sentiment is negative in some way.Whether it is justified or not.(Remembering the football analogy, there are other ‘brands’ almost as ‘kickable)
              “How can they afford that.” “Where id they get that.”

              Skin colour comes first,develop the issue second.

              I hear/see this all the time.
              And yet I know I could count on the thumbs of one hand the amount of non-indigenous I have met who would REALLY swap places.
              No how passionately they put their case.
              There is no amount of money which will change the ‘spiritual deprivation and disconnection’ endured by generations of affected people.
              The only thing which can heal is confronting it without ulterior motives.

              “I’m sorry, but”, does not cut the mustard.
              “They should all just move on”, is ignorance personified.

              Most people have never spoken to an indigenous person yet claim to know so much.

              Most people would avoid eye contact at every chance.
              I think such a deeply damaging generational dispossession warrants confrontation of the truth.
              I had nothing to do with the European Holocaust either,but I believe it happened and it still has repercussions.I also know that policies and attitudes damaging and hurtful to indigenous people have and are ongoing.This stuff did not all vaporise at the arrival of the first fleet.There are elders whose children/grandchildren/great etc, carry real and raw wounds.To this very day.
              Reconciliation?
              We have a very long way to go.

              What a pity we don’t value what once was.Or even know how much continuous knowledge (science) we have lost.Whether we like it or not we all play a part in that process, by action or inaction.

              Rober Tickner was probably one our best Ministers in the Indigenous portfolios.

              This was a document ALL Australians should read.
              Rebutting the myths : some facts about Indigenous Affairs / Office of the Minister for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Affairs

              Amongst other facts you will read the facts on these little gems doing the rounds.

              Myth: Aboriginal people and alcohol
              Myth: “Aboriginal people don’t want to work”
              Myth: “Aboriginal Affairs is awash with money”
              Myth: “There is no accountability in Aboriginal Affairs”
              Myth: Aboriginal people get special treatment”
              Myth: “Separate Aboriginal services provide special privileges”
              Myth: “Aboriginal people are involved in a land grab”
              Myth: Aboriginal sacred sites and development
              Myth: The free car.

              Make sure you are sitting down.

              If one group tells another group they are worthless,useless etc long enough,ask yourself what usually happens.
              Black deaths in custody?We seem to have ignored/forgotten that one.

              Australia could very well have the longest known case of ethnic bullying in history.
              We seem to have a willing tolerance for pseudo-Apartheid.

              Hows that life expectancy gap,these days?
              What did UN have to say about the intervention?
              Do governments and miners divide communities and families to get projects up?
              How many languages / dialects are taught/protected spoken?
              Who was Senior Australian of the Year, and why?

              We indeed have a very long way to go.It seems ignorance is still bliss, and some things are just too hard.

              (Some more pseudo-Maralinga elder speak for you HG.)

            • AJ June 15, 2012 at 2:06 pm #

              I dont deny any of what you wrote, there is no doubt at all there is also blind racism present, unthinking, unintelligent colour hatred.
              It saddens me greatly that my cousin who is married to a full blood aboriginal fears her leaving her community and they refuse to travel to Darwin because of what they have to cop. Similarly a good female friend of mine is a very talented musician, but now refuses to leave their very remote station to publically perform any more for the same reason. Her Anglo husband now produces her music and they sell via post and I think the net to support the family – its just a lot safer for them. My point wasnt to deny racism, it was to point out that some wouldnt even get to that level of awareness, to them (White) its an injustice that they struggle also because of the colour of their skin (Racism is it not?)

            • Hypocritophobe June 15, 2012 at 2:42 pm #

              @AJ (No Reply Button available under your last post)

              “Racism,is it not?”

              To which I would reiterate this,
              People deny many things,racism and anti-indigenous sentiment included.
              It doesn’t mean they aren’t.There may be an element of envy,but don’t let that cloud the issue.

              And add this, MOTIVE.
              We have spoken many times hear about the issue, and how ‘certain people’ hide their belief, and deny it drives them, feeds thei view,powers their position.
              This racism definition argument is no different in reality.

              The old and gold “I am not a racist but..”
              It dominates the skyline, and whether we agree or not,this nation has a special place reserved for anti Indigenous sentiment.

              Most people reading what I put in my previous comment will glaze over and move on,”this is not applicable to me” etc.
              And that’s OK AJ ,I am fully aware of what country I live in and how bad we all have it…….

              Apathy is our cosy communal comfort-blanket we love to share.It keeps us all warm at the same time.It has been handed down for generations.
              And no-one can be bothered making a new one.Lets leave that to someone else…..

            • helvityni June 15, 2012 at 2:46 pm #

              AJ, you said earlier that you are busy person with no time for long posts…so it’s OK for you, but not for Hudson to write lenghty posts….

            • AJ June 15, 2012 at 2:51 pm #

              Fair comment, this one is close to my heart though, sorry if I was too verbose

            • hudsongodfrey June 15, 2012 at 3:25 pm #

              AJ,

              I’ve spent some time, though not nearly enough with friends and family up North. Their family like my own is a mix of white and non-white Australians some of whom are 4th or 5th generation like me. Maybe its because they’ve that mixed background, or maybe it is because they’ve lived lives in a community where aboriginal welfare has long been a concern, but the sense I got from them isn’t one of distaste for the problems of indigenous people but of regret that they nor anyone seems quite to know how to help.

              Take it for what it is worth that they treated my views with suspicion. Take it for what it is worth that I spent time fishing and camping up there and that every aboriginal person who I met totally broke the mould in terms of any preconceptions I may have had. The one generalisation that I could make was the generalisations are useless.

              I met a bloke who bought a boat. Ten grand it cost him. He could’ve had one worth 20 or even 40K, but he wouldn’t take the loan he was offered at the time by the aboriginal land council because he’d more dignity to cop a handout. If anyone points to a blackfella and tells you they’re all the same just say to ‘em, what the fuck would you know?

              As for me I only learned enough to know that I didn’t know but that’s something and its a start. I felt better knowing even that much.

              Sometimes the system gets things wrong and it finds it hard to change afterward. If politicians are going to offer aboriginal organisations money to try and buy votes then the leaders are probably going to take it and they’re probably going to use it pretty much the same as government money always gets used by governments themselves. It gets shared out as evenly as possible rather than being used enterprisingly, and then when its gone nothing has been built or created of any abiding value so more money is needed time and time again.

              The subtler version of the debate draws a distinction that Ray draws in relation to Islam. There are good indigenous leaders and corrupt ones but picking out the merits or lack thereof among individuals is quite different from allowing their character to prejudice our opinions about their entire community in a racist fashion.

              But too many people do that some out of bigotry and some perhaps out of a kind embarrassment as if to excuse their community its failings by making some very crude distinctions. Whatever the reason it is without exception an ignorant and unwarranted blight on our society whenever we use racism to excuse giving up on the least of its members.

        • Marilyn June 15, 2012 at 5:54 am #

          Oh for fuck’s sake, they were in an Australian run prison 5,000 km from Sydney and their relatives were allowed to drown while the navy watched an empty boat so it didn’t sink before they could sink it themselves.

      • samjandwich June 14, 2012 at 10:38 am #

        Jennifer has certainly been prolific these past weeks hasn’t she Helvi?

        But I fear that if Sheep continues to cover controversial material such as this she is going to have to start distributing ten foot barge poles to her commentators as well… and our forests are already suffering enough!

        • helvityni June 14, 2012 at 12:47 pm #

          sam, I use smileys as my rampart…not enough it seems…

  8. Egor June 14, 2012 at 9:29 am #

    Since when religion-based intolerance is considered rasist? Does it mean every time Christian person tells me “I go to hell” for being atheist or Muslim person calls me “ka’afir” I can play racism card, even though I’m totally white?

    • Steve at the Pub June 14, 2012 at 10:05 am #

      Egor: The word “racist” seems to have absorbed the meaning of the entirely separate word “racialist”. The Macquarie dictionary, as referenced above (it’s hardly the Oxford, even at the best of times) seems to perpetuate this error.

      Racism has always meant a recognition of differening characteristics (eg, a particular race may have black skin)
      The belief that a particular race is inherently superior to another, is racialism.
      I’ve yet to find an unwashed uni student, chanting “racist” in the street, who is able to conceptualist these two meanings. (Rhodes scholars they ain’t!)

      • hudsongodfrey June 14, 2012 at 11:35 am #

        Sorry Steve but this is utter rubbish the two terms are completely interchangeable. Racism being the belief that other cultures are inferior presumes that one’s own is superior.

        Using semantics in defence of fine distinctions that make no difference to the moral stance we take in relation to the issues at hand is generally the tactic of an apologist for something that cares not to plainly speak its own name!

        • Steve at the Pub June 14, 2012 at 3:47 pm #

          The two terms are only interchangeable of recent years Hudso, likely due to regular colloquial use by people who are unable to conceptualise the difference. (& there’s plenty of people that dumb to be found whenever the word “racist” is being chanted by a mob).

          When I left school the words had meanings that were most distincly different. What has changed, besides some colloquial use by liberal arts students who should know better?

          • hudsongodfrey June 14, 2012 at 4:41 pm #

            Steve,

            If words change over time then we generally have to go with the common meanings. You’ve questioned how the words are being used and have received your answer, now it’s time to use the language clearly and confidently in your new found knowledge.

            Whenever people mention the word racism in conversation I think we can be well enough assured that either they’re wrong about where your sympathies lie or they’re trying to say that they think you might be a racist.

            Sadly none of the views you’ve put forward thus far stir the slightest flicker of hope in anyone reading you here that the later isn’t likelier. So if you re-examine your motives and don’t like what you see then you’ll may even recognise Scott Morrison in a new light. The man’s views are truly odious!

            • Steve at the Pub June 14, 2012 at 5:23 pm #

              If you’re suggesting that I hold racial superiority views Hudso, then you are, at best, misinformed.

              • hudsongodfrey June 14, 2012 at 5:36 pm #

                The thing to do would be to correct the misconception then Steve. I suggest giving Morrison the flick would be a good start!

            • Steve at the Pub June 14, 2012 at 6:07 pm #

              What misconception Hudso?

              • hudsongodfrey June 14, 2012 at 7:21 pm #

                Oh I dunno just start with the fact that you’re in denial about Morrison and work your way up!

            • Steve at the Pub June 14, 2012 at 8:26 pm #

              You’re not makinse sense Hudso. Likely this means you’ve said something you are unable to back up. Don’t worry, it happens to us all!

              • hudsongodfrey June 14, 2012 at 8:51 pm #

                Well then Steve you need to go back a step further than Morrison to the kinds of views he supports and ask yourself how you came to be taking sides with the very person whose racism we’re all speaking against here.

                We may not all agree here on the exact locus of Morrison’s bigotry whether it is religious, cultural or just plain political opportunism, but I have all the backup that I need. And one thing for sure when you’re posting on a page containing any number of views as to why the man is a racist is that you’re challenged to refute them rather than just trading niceties with me.

            • Steve at the Pub June 16, 2012 at 4:53 pm #

              And why do I have to do that Hudso? If I’m posting on a page containing any number of views as to why a man is racist, why am I singled out, or “challenged to refute”, those (alleged) views?

              • hudsongodfrey June 16, 2012 at 6:45 pm #

                Because your earlier comments supported Scott Morrison a clear and unabashed proponent of racist policies. That’s why…, and if you don’t know that by now I’ll build a bridge and get over it regardless of the fact that you’ll probably be underneath

            • Steve at the Pub June 16, 2012 at 7:12 pm #

              It’ll take a better man that you to ever go over the top of me Hudso, & many have tried, hehe.
              I support no racist policies whatsover, and saying otherwise is not only displays quite poor comprehension skills, but is wrong!

              • hudsongodfrey June 16, 2012 at 7:33 pm #

                Comprehensions Skills!? That’s rich.

                Which part of step away from Morrison if you don’t want to be tainted by his racist views don’t you get?

            • Steve at the Pub June 16, 2012 at 9:12 pm #

              Rich it may be in your view Hudso. However it is accurate. Something for you to reflect upon!

              Some critical thinking skills wouldn’t go astray for you. Something for you to reflect upon.

              Being out of the step with the majority of the Australian population doesn’t necessarily make you right, but I can see how it’d be hard for you to deal with.

              Chanting “Racist” isn’t going to lower your blood pressure. Scott Morrison is set to become the next immigration minister, and likely a very long serving one.
              Something for you to reflect upon.

              • hudsongodfrey June 16, 2012 at 10:54 pm #

                Really?

                Well we’ll see about that in due course. But being made a minister won’t make that particular leopard change his spots even if having nothing to say in your own defence has made you show your true stripes.

  9. Godfree Gordon June 14, 2012 at 10:29 am #

    I am absolutely no fan of Morrison, but you cant be racist (or racialist) about religion. race refers to characteristics that you are born with, e.g. skin colour, nationality – things you cant change. Religion you choose and crosses races.

    • Jennifer Wilson June 14, 2012 at 10:50 am #

      Unfortunately, Morrison didn’t stop at religion. He made assumptions about all boat arrivals, regardless of their religion (& some are Christian).

      • Egor June 18, 2012 at 4:30 pm #

        I believe, “regardless of their religion” was actually “regardless of their religion, race or nationality”, wasn’t it?

  10. Hypocritophobe June 14, 2012 at 10:57 am #

    Boy the topic of racism brings out the racists AND trolls.

    A certain visitor here has been exposed of being a Morrison clone on other sites.
    (And also over at the ABC under dozens of pseudonyms)
    I’d just pull his plug if this were my site.(And I wouldn’t warn him either)
    Free speech does not step aside for hate speech.
    Except when the Liberals are in campaign mode, and their little online ‘fluffers’ are included.

  11. hudsongodfrey June 14, 2012 at 11:16 am #

    Race is a classification system lacking a basis in modern biology but which is sometimes used to categorise humans into designated populations or groups by various perceived discrete heritable phenotypic characteristics, geographic ancestry or physical appearance.

    The baseless notion that an accident of birth should be the main determinant of privilege in today’s world strikes me as among our most offensive human notions.

    For sheer stupidity alone it is up there with the creationist argument that man can’t be descended from apes, when we are f**king apes you Idiot!

    What I think our convenient association between physical characteristics or geographic ancestry refers to is actually cultural difference at which point what we’re really talking about here is actually a form of tribalism. That is to say something that is as baseless as it is divisive when disseminated among narrow minded, self-interested bigots.

    Scott Morrison, Bolt and throw in Cory Bernardi if you will, are just the vanguard of one extreme of racism in Australia today. Both major political parties promote what are essentially racist policies against asylum seekers for reasons that while more complex than to be characterised as purely racist are nonetheless playing to a gallery of voters in marginal seats outside the main population centres whose views on this are skewed by the extremist rhetoric of the neo-White Australia promoters.

    When the only remaining high ground is occupied by the Greens and Malcolm Fraser our chances of prevailing against the moral vacuum created by the likes of Morrison and Abbott are slim and somewhat diminished by a Labor Party that has similarly deserted its post.

    When faced with cultural difference we have a choice either to retreat into divisive tribalism or to take the lead in embracing the multicultural values that our current crop of opinion poll watchers, sycophants and rabble-rousers have chosen to eschew. That the rhetoric around defending our misdeeds has taken in the character of apologetics is perhaps most telling. It’s just what we do whenever we seek to justify baseless self-serving ideologies.

  12. Ray (Novelactivist) June 14, 2012 at 6:06 pm #

    Um, perhaps I’ve missed something, but unless I’m mistaken Islam is a religion and not a race. This is not to defend anything Morrison may have said, it’s just that I’m very wary of accepting criticism of Islam as racist.

    Firstly Islam accepts people of any culture/ethnicity. Secondly, no one refers to criticism of Christianity as racist, even though it too accepts people of any culture/ethnicity.

    There are very good, rational reasons to not want a large Muslim population in any secular liberal democracy. This is because ‘conservative’ Muslims (of whatever race) place their ‘religion’ above the principles of liberal democracy. They are Theocrats at heart. The larger the population the greater the pressure to accept sharia.

    Need I remind everyone here that the Muslim community is very conservative on a number of issues, including gay marriage.

    However, none of this excuses using basic fear mongering to push your political agenda.

    Btw, I should add that Christians are becoming increasingly concerned about the growing Muslim population because of the persecution of Christians in several Muslim dominated areas/countries. It is my experience that many Australians are not fully aware of the extent of anti-Christian sentiment in Islam.

    Why would you accept a hostile population into your country?

    • Hypocritophobe June 14, 2012 at 6:19 pm #

      Maybe so Ray.
      His walking and talking are in lock step with our web-footed aquatic birdy friends.
      On that level, he is more like a duck, than a duck.

      Until we see him standing at the airport with the Federal Police, stuffing white Anglo over-stayers and ex pat south African racist farmers from the top-end,back onto planes,I think we can safely assume a thing or too.

      This bloke is a shit stirrer embracing Hansonite one liners to stir up xenophobia.
      And as a bible-basher, he is oh-so atypical in his wall to wall hypocrisy.
      No wonder he is on the Lie-berate, French bunt.

      • Ray (Novelactivist) June 14, 2012 at 6:25 pm #

        As I said, this is not to excuse Morrison. He is as you say.

      • Steve at the Pub June 14, 2012 at 8:19 pm #

        Hypo, please try to not get Jennifer sued. I advise you moderate some of your more…er… inaccurate (& thus potentially defamatory) stuff. Just sayin’. This blog is big enough in readership to be noticed & attract a lawsuit for defamation.
        Such action is likely to be aimed at the blog hostess.

        • Hypocritophobe June 14, 2012 at 9:00 pm #

          From your own blog Mr Coalition Troll.(Eat your OWN words.)This is the last time you get precious oxygen from me.

          All quotes directly from your own blog.(Save a few quotation marks by me.
          ____________________________________
          You say- “Events in this weblog are “all factual”, & are all in a pub operated by Mine Host. However chronology & location may sometimes be altered to protect the identity of those who have committed no offences.

          *************************************
          OK let’s see how truth ‘Mine Host’…
          *************************************
          “Specifically the Qld state worker’s compensation laws. Under which an employer is ‘obliged’ to ensure a worker suffers no injury, either at the workplace, or work related.

          Under the state laws, if any injury whatsoever happens to a worker, the employer is to blame, and may be sued for allowing the injury. Such litigation is in addition to the regular worker’s compensation scheme.

          It should be noted that being sued for hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, for minor or fabricated injuries is a regular occurrence for Qld employers. Mine Host has been subject to at least three such lawsuits.

          Employers have no defence, as none is allowed under the law. If an injury occurred, the employer was negligent.

          Were a meteorite to strike the workplace & injure a worker, the employer can be sued for not preventing this from happening.

          You couldn’t make this stuff up!

          Anyone who is wondering why the newly elected Premier of Qld has pledged to “rip up” at least 18,000 pages of legislation that was created by the previous govt. can now see why.”
          and
          “In the glossary from the Fair Work Ombudsman, the employee is termed “the complainant” and the employer is termed “the wrongdoer”.’
          and
          ” They have some pretty dumb people there at the FWO. Some of their staff are proper sourpusses whose attitude to employers is straight out of 1917 Russia.
          The office/dept tripled (or quadrupled) in size in only a few months last year. One of their more enthusiastic boss-hating staff may have mistaken their workplace culture for their actual public position and put that terminology onto official letterheads, only to have a cooler head later discover it & scrub it!”

          and
          On immigration

          “Believe it or not, the case officers pretty much make it up as they go along.

          They will change the rules as the application progresses. Arbitrarily.”

          ___________________________________________
          If JW wants to bin any of my words, these included she knows she is fully entitled to.

          Pot/Kettle/Black

          • doug quixote June 14, 2012 at 10:02 pm #

            Why are we not surprised, Hypo?

            It is pretty well open season on political players of all stripes. The High Court has developed a Freedom of Political Speech doctrine from the Constitution, as a necessary result of our political system.

            Any politician or would-be politician suing for defamation now had better be able to prove actual malice to succeed.

            I am perfectly safe calling in Rudd, Abbott and Assange psyschopaths – because they are. Look at the medical/psycholgical definitions.

            I defy any of them to prove differently.

            And I defy Melinda Tankard Reist to deny that she is a political player, and defy her to sue anyone for defamation.

            And that includes suing Jennifer Wilson. MTR will need deep deep pockets to foot the legal bills.

            • Jennifer Wilson June 15, 2012 at 7:15 am #

              Speaking of Ms Tankard Reist, a Twitter friend sent me this very interesting link yesterday:

              http://allecto.wordpress.com/2011/07/24/scum-conference-draft-program/

              to a SCUM conference last year organised by radical feminists and called *Society for Cutting Up Men radical feminist conference.* Yes, right here in Australia. You do all remember the SCUM manifesto of Valerie Solanas: Society for Cutting Up Men?I believe Valerie also tried to kill Andy Warhol.

              Anyway. A speaker at this conference was Susan Hawthorne, of Spinifex Press. I believe she spoke on feminist manifestos and the SCUM manifesto. The launch of Big Porn Inc is advertised in the SCUM conference literature. You’ll see it at the top.

              So now we have a link between Ms Reist and radical feminists separatists who run Society for Cutting Up Men conference, to the extent that she is willing to appear in their conference material. SCUM is not pretty.

              Here is the link to the Manifesto http://www.womynkind.org/scum.htm

            • Sam Jandwich June 15, 2012 at 9:07 pm #

              Just quickly, I don’t thnk the rabbit isn’t smart enough to get away with being a psychopath.. unlike his predecessor Howard, who actually wasn’t that smart either!

              Abbott is just a liar, that’s all.

            • samjandwich June 15, 2012 at 9:08 pm #

              oops for the doublenegative, but hopefully you get ma’drift;-)

          • hudsongodfrey June 15, 2012 at 10:03 pm #

            Is that the sound of an arse hanging in tatters!

        • Jennifer Wilson June 14, 2012 at 10:58 pm #

          If you are threatening me Steve, I fear we must part company,

          • paul walter June 18, 2012 at 10:04 pm #

            I didn’t his appreciate his attack on Hypo. Attack the person, lose the argument.
            Secondly, the thread demonstrates there is still a level of Islamophobia.
            Not quite Albrechtsen or Cronulla, but still some trace of medieval/atavistic fear and loathing tendencies irritated by the western press and Zionist elements.
            It’s a “Religion of the Book”. Its tenets are basically those of Judaism and Christianity and ideally it involves the same emphasis on compassion as Buddhism, which is not monotheistic. And like Buddhism, Hinduism, Fascism, Stalinism, and the Religions of the Book, given the right circumstances, the message is forgotten under that stress as occurs with Copt minorities in North Africa, Palestinians within Israel, Jews in many places including of course in Europe and a thousand other places.
            Cutting ( yes I haven’t actually read more than a few tiny bits of the Koran), I find the notion that there is something sinister in Islam not present in other doctrines,or that there is something inherently problematic about Muslim societies or their people risable.
            If these societies and the people there, are unsettled at the moment, it’s more do with war and poverty imposed from a thuggish West that has turned people there against a Euro/American-centric culture that lives lies and does the opposite to its much vaunted mission statement of rationality, “civilisation” concern and democracy,

    • Ray (Novelactivist) June 14, 2012 at 6:23 pm #

      Nor is Islam a ‘culture’. It is a religion. Btw, some of the new immigrants are not Muslim, even though they have come from Islamic countries. Some of them belong to minority sects fleeing Muslim persecution, such as the Iraqi Mandanaeans – Iraqi but not Muslim.

      • Jennifer Wilson June 14, 2012 at 7:11 pm #

        I don’t understand how you can separate a religion from a culture.

        • Ray (Novelactivist) June 14, 2012 at 8:29 pm #

          In the case of Islam, Christianity and Buddhism quite easily because they are not culture dependent. For example, many Polynesian cultures are Christian and they fuse tradition with the central beliefs. Some Australians have adopted Buddhism without giving up being Australian. And some Black Americans have converted to Islam and kept a uniquely Black American twist. It is more difficult with orthodox Judaism and Hinduism because they have requirements that you be born a Jew or Hindu. Islam, Christianity and Buddhism are multi-cultural.

          • Jennifer Wilson June 14, 2012 at 10:16 pm #

            Morrison did not use the term Muslim to refer solely to religion. Its very clear he is referring to ethnicity and to culture, including religious practice,all of which he argues does not adapt well to Australia. I think it is disingenuous to argue otherwise. You can argue that he is inaccurate in his use of the term, and you can call it illegal discrimination on the grounds of religion instead of racism. However, Morrison is concerned only with people who arrive on boats. He either doesn’t know or doesn’t care that some are Christian, not Muslim. His concern is their countries of origin and the incompatibility of their cultures with ours. He wishes to discriminate against them as immigrants because of their countries of origin and their culture. He doesn’t mention religion.

            I don’t know if orthodox Judaism allows converts but certainly mainstream Judaism does. I know several Christians who have converted to Judaism.

            Morrison’s comments indicate a belief that his culture is superior to that of the human group he describes as Muslim and that Muslims are not capable of adapting to his culture. He says nothing about the incompatibiity of religion specifically, I assume it is included in his use of the term culture.

            • Hypocritophobe June 14, 2012 at 10:41 pm #

              It’s Apartheid 2 ,JW.

              South Africa rightly threw the original away.It washed down the street,into a stream,on to a river and out to sea.
              It took a while, but in washed up on the West coast of Australia,where ‘certain folk’ gave it political mouth to mouth, and unwittingly brought it back to life.
              The ex-pat whiteys fleeing the installation of justice in South Africa,helped him (certain folk) feed it well.
              It cross bred with the local endemic racism and shagged a fertile Hansonism till it (Mark II) revelled in hybrid vigour..

              It lives and breathes again……….and somehow the fleas from the same original carcass have hosted on that local bigotry,long enough, to now reside in comfort in Liberal HQ, in order to strengthen the F2 hybrid that is the latest greatest model.

              It’s reverse Henry Ford-ism.

    • Jennifer Wilson June 14, 2012 at 7:08 pm #

      Morrison didn’t confine his comments to religion. He covered everything, including allegations that they are “diseased” & included Christians if they arrive by boat. I also agree with other commenters that the term racist has come to include someone who discriminates on religious grounds. Religion is a distinctive characteristic that forms culture.

      • Ray (Novelactivist) June 14, 2012 at 8:47 pm #

        The term racist is only used in the context of Islam, never Christianity or Buddhism.

        There is a reason for this. Islam wants to play the victim card and being called a racist carries maximum negative emotional power and rhetorical impact.

        I’m an atheist of the Christopher Hitchens/Sam Harris mould. I’m not going to give religion much of a chance to play the victim. Accepting the criticism of Islam as racist accepts the rhetorical game.

        Look, it’s messy. I have no doubt Morrison was playing the fear card – but we need to separate fear of a religion from fear of other nationalities. I mean, I don’t recall concern about Vietnamese boat people being based on them being Buddhist.

        And what do we say about Australians who convert to Islam? The very white David Hicks or the Aboriginal Anthony Mundine?

        • Ray (Novelactivist) June 14, 2012 at 8:56 pm #

          I should add that being called a racist when you criticise Islam is a way to silence criticism of Islam. And yes, that has happened to me.

          • Jennifer Wilson June 14, 2012 at 11:00 pm #

            Yes it is. But Morrison was not attempting to silence Islam. He was trying to introduce an immigration policy some of his colleagues describe as discriminatory.

            • Ray (novelactivist) June 15, 2012 at 12:06 pm #

              No, not silence Islam. The claim of racism is used to silence criticism of Islam. A perfect example was the past silence surrounding honour killings in the UK. People tip-toed around the issue in a desire to be culturally sensitive and not wanting to sound racist. It is only recently that people have dared to speak out about it and the statistics are truly horrifying. Police are now identifying honour attacks and preliminary findings give a figure of 2,823 in 2010 alone, with an average of 12 honour based murders. Behind these statistics are other horrifying stats regarding forced marriages.

              As a progressive I take the issue of women’s rights very seriously and I place them above ‘cultural sensitivity’.

              I have been in a position of being accused of being racist for being critical of Islam in an attempt to silence me. It’s a long story but it actually involves an Australian political party and an internal disciplinary process that found in my favour.

        • Ray (Novelactivist) June 14, 2012 at 8:58 pm #

          Ooops, and, and… the reason I mention this is because you began your piece by being careful to define racism…

        • Jennifer Wilson June 14, 2012 at 10:53 pm #

          There is nothing in my piece that refers to any claims by Islam of racism. It’s about Morrison’s justifications for discriminating against boat arrivals, many of whom are Muslim, some of whom are not. Muslim is also used as code for terrorist. It was used by Howard et al to identify boat arrivals as savages who allegedly threw their infants overboard to gain access to this country. The term has become a metonym and no longer refers only to religion. The same can be said of the term Jew. I totally reject the attribution of a sole meaning, religion, to either of those terms.

          I don’t see how replacing the term racist with *illegal discrimination on the grounds of religious belief* will do anything to prevent Islam or any other religion from playing the victim card.

          I have nothing to say about Australians who convert to Islam and I doubt Morrison would either because they are Australian, and they are not arriving on boats seeking asylum.

          The comparison with Vietnamese boat people doesn’t work. The whole situation was handled quite differently by the government at the time. Terrorism had not done its work in the US and become inextricably linked with religion as a consequence. No Vietnamese Buddhists had flown planes into the WTC. We had not been subjected to a carefully and globally orchestrated fear campaign about Vietnamese Buddhists and their evil desire to destroy our way of life as part of an axis of evil.

          • hudsongodfrey June 14, 2012 at 11:16 pm #

            One aside Jennifer if I may on Vietnamese arrivals.

            I’ve already tried to cover the idea that what matters to bigots is seldom specific but more typically generalised to a range of criteria on which foreigners can be seen as different and therefore necessarily regarded as inferior.

            I’m addressing this not on the level of how policy is decided in terms of geopolitical factors, quotas or skilled versus unskilled, compassionate versus refugee migration status. What people on the street see in new arrivals are people who are culturally disconnected with their new home and often more dependent on members of their own communities for support. My contention is that what they have come to see in waves of previous migration has gradually been the faces of fellow Australians. It often takes the best part of a generation, but so far it has never failed to occur.

            The fears of Morrison and his ilk are ill founded and can be shown to be as such by our multicultural experience. It just takes time.

            I contend that as a nation we’re actually quite good at getting along with people of different cultures. Better by halves than the nations from which many of our migrants came. Maybe its time we started to see ourselves in a different light. One that puts Morrison’s ilk under the deepest possible shadow.

          • Ray June 15, 2012 at 7:28 am #

            “I totally reject the attribution of a sole meaning, religion, to either of those terms. ”

            This is where we differ because I reject to use of the term Muslim to mean a race or culture. This is a complex issue, but I believe there are good grounds for maintaining clarity on this issue.

            I am being pedantic ;)

        • hudsongodfrey June 14, 2012 at 10:56 pm #

          Ray,

          I take the view that some Israel apologists have overplayed the anti-Semitism card more than once. And here as with Islam the substance of what is argued matters tremendously.

          If you want to discriminate against people based on prejudicial generalisations then in the broader sense whether the moniker racist strictly applies matters less than the fact that some form of bigotry is surely at work.

          But if you want to offer specific if occasionally strident criticism be it of Zionism, or of Islamic teaching then that seems to me to be something that you could do without making prejudicial generalisations.

          Certainly I don’t see grounds for the kinds of things Morrison would argue. He seems to think that the reported practices of Taliban, the Saudis or even Somalian Muslims can be used to infer guilt by association among refugees who are fleeing from the places where they occurred. Whereas I wouldn’t wonder that among people who don’t want to be in those places extreme religious practice may well be one of their primary reasons for leaving. If neither of us know for sure then it might well seem premature of us to assume. Yet we’re living in times where permission has tacitly been granted for all of us to simply hate all Muslims based on the deeds of a relatively small cadre of fundamentalists.

          I think this is troubling because when we stop seeing Muslims as basically good people with a number of sub par leaders and start seeing them as demonised then what right have we to expect them not to view us in a similarly unsophisticated light?

          What happens then seems obvious to me. We’re outnumbered!

          • Hypocritophobe June 14, 2012 at 11:22 pm #

            +1

          • Ray June 15, 2012 at 7:34 am #

            I think it matters. There is considerable confusion amongst progressives in regards to Islam and in my opinion, they conflate a number of issues.

            One of those confusions is the extent of fundamentalism. As the recent Egyptian elections have clearly demonstrated, the majority of Muslims are not moderate, but are in fact religious conservatives and the extent of salafism is far greater than progressives think.

            • hudsongodfrey June 15, 2012 at 3:29 pm #

              I’m not so sure about the Egyptian elections, (especially today). Some who seem better informed than I take the view that the results are less about moderate versus fundamentalist Islam than they are about progressive versus conservative attitudes.

            • Ray June 15, 2012 at 5:29 pm #

              In regards to Islam there is no difference between conservatism and fundamentalism.

              FYI, in the lower house elections (not the current presidential) the Muslim Brotherhood gained 37.5%, the Islamists (IB and NW together) 37%. The Egyptian Bloc, which was a coalition of progressive anti Muslim Brotherhood parties only got 9%. Thing is that the Muslim Brotherhood is in reality, an Islamist group, with a slightly moderate face. So in reality Islamists got 74.5% of the vote. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_parliamentary_election,_2011–2012

            • hudsongodfrey June 15, 2012 at 6:04 pm #

              Hello Ray,

              In this case I’m using progressive and conservatism in the political sense, quite apart from what fundamentalist and moderate denote in religious terms.

              The sense I have of it from what I’ve read and heard is that religion is there nut it’s in the background. This being a political contest, and despite the fact that Egypt is notionally designated a “Muslim Country”, people there can and do make political judgements along the same practical lines as secular voters may.

              FYI I know, but then presumption is the mother of all…. how did that end again? If the elections were free and fair, which looks increasingly doubtful, then maybe this is the will of the people. But if today’s news is anything to go by then the will of the people is for something quite different than the election result appears to be.

            • Ray June 15, 2012 at 6:20 pm #

              Except that there is no real separation between religion and the state as far as Islam is concerned. Secular states were imposed on Islam and maintained by dictatorships. Now that the Arab Spring is sweeping away those dictatorships all we will see is the re-emergence of religion.

              The Mubarak regime suppressed the Muslim Brotherhood. I’m not at all surprised that pro-Mubarak people in the army and the legal system will want to block the Muslim Brotherhood because they know them and know what to expect.

              The simple fact is that progressive/secular forces are a small minority in most Muslim societies.

            • hudsongodfrey June 15, 2012 at 6:40 pm #

              Ray I think you’re right up to a point but I also think that the nature of the change that Egyptian progressives want is more inclined to separate church and state. Whether they’ll get it or not is entirely another matter but for the moment at least I’m less pessimistic about the Arab peoples than you seem to be.

              Mind you, maybe asking whether I should be pessimistic or optimistic about Egypt is no more or less worrying than an exercise in divining whether the tea party could restore Bush style religious fundamentalism to the United States.

            • Ray June 15, 2012 at 8:52 pm #

              When the protests first started and Mubarak was overthrown I recall how the media and commentators were speaking about a democratic revolution. This is indeed what Egyptian progressives wanted and still want. However, they needed the people to vote for the democratic parties and they didn’t.

              Unfortunately I predicted this outcome and the reason is simple. The progressive pressure came from urban, educated professionals, not the poor or the rural voters.

              I’m afraid western progressives overestimate how many Muslims are moderate or progressive.

              And I’m afraid I also predicted what would happen in Libya, which now doesn’t have an effective central government, with tribal based militias controlling their territory.

              As for Syria – Assad will eventually be overthrown and then there will be a real blood bath as Sunnis seek revenge on the Alawite, and then the various Sunni factions (tribal and sectarain) fight for the spoils.

              To understand the region one must go back into history to understand the politics of caliphism in relation to Arab political culture and Islam. Islam first, family second, tribe third – and forget the rest.

              There will be no democratic reform until Muslims shake off the yoke of Islam and Arabs the yoke of tribalism.
              .

            • Ray June 15, 2012 at 8:56 pm #

              “We’re going years backwards when it comes to women’s issues. One MP wanted to discuss cancelling the ban on female genital mutilation. Another proposed reducing the age of marriage to 12 for girls. Another wanted to cancel the law giving the right to Muslim women to initiate divorce. If this is how the Egyptian parliament is after the revolution we have a serious problem,” Ibrahim said. “We know the Muslim Brotherhood agenda. We’re not worried that they’re likely to force us to wear veils. I’m thinking more on the deeper level because they consider women as second class. You can see it from their speeches and statements on television. They’re always talking about morals, virtues, family. They want to keep us in the home. This is how they see women. Not as an equal citizen.”

              http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jun/13/arab-women-egypt-laws-parliament

            • hudsongodfrey June 15, 2012 at 9:54 pm #

              Yes I think all of that is true, but that the overall trend is similar throughout the Middle East towards more people being educated and urbanised.

              What you observe about the electoral distribution of people in cities and rural areas is something that has also been said of Iran at their last elections.

              In the end, and much as we may lament it, a separation of church and state, while it may have effectively put paid to Western theocracies, hasn’t gotten rid of religions.

              They’re a strange beast that is actually quite adaptable despite what we may say with regard to their intransigence on certain matters of dogma. But they’ve nevertheless some canny survival mechanisms of the kind I think we could only speculate about in terms of their almost instinctual self preservation. My current theory being, dogma that isn’t amenable to reason actually serves that very purpose, since the ability to work from ethical principles obviates the need of an esoteric belief system…. Am I getting warm?

              Islam will do the same. That was my point. I remembered having one before I digressed :)

      • Marilyn June 15, 2012 at 4:29 pm #

        And watchging the SBS series on
        East to West shows that it is the dirty muslims who taught the nice clean murderous westerners how to be civilised.

    • Jennifer Wilson June 14, 2012 at 7:10 pm #

      Well, the indigenous people of this country had to, didn’t they? As did every other colonised country.

    • Di Pearton June 15, 2012 at 9:08 am #

      I agree that conservative muslims are probably as conservative as conservative christians, and both likely to be hostile to gay marriage.

      • Hypocritophobe June 15, 2012 at 10:35 am #

        Di,
        I like that your Avatar looks like its doing the Haka

        • Di Pearton June 15, 2012 at 10:39 am #

          Haha! Now there’s a race that is obviously superior! Go the ALL BLACKS :)

          • Hypocritophobe June 15, 2012 at 11:03 am #

            From Wiki,
            Altogether now…

            Performance

            The “Ka Mate” haka generally opens with a set of five preparatory instructions shouted by the leader, before the whole team joins in:
            “Ka Mate” Leader: Ringa pakia! Slap the hands against the thighs!
            Uma tiraha! Puff out the chest.
            Turi whatia! Bend the knees!
            Hope whai ake! Let the hip follow!
            Waewae takahia kia kino! Stomp the feet as hard as you can!

            Leader: Ka mate, ka mate I die, I die,
            Team: Ka ora’ Ka ora’ I live, I live
            Leader: Ka mate, ka mate I die, I die,
            Team: Ka ora Ka ora ” I live, I live,
            All: Tēnei te tangata pūhuruhuru This is the hairy man
            Nāna i tiki mai whakawhiti te rā …Who caused the sun to shine again for me
            A Upane! Ka Upane! Up the ladder, Up the ladder
            Upane Kaupane” Up to the top
            Whiti te rā,! The sun shines!
            Hī! Rise!

            • hudsongodfrey June 15, 2012 at 6:46 pm #

              I’m not having a crack at you gorgeous Avatar but….it looks like that moment in “I’m a little teapot”…. You know the one…. Ah shit I’m a sugar bowl!

        • helvityni June 15, 2012 at 10:40 am #

          …and you, Hypo, have a creative outlook on life… LOL re Haka…

          • paul walter June 15, 2012 at 11:05 am #

            seconded.

  13. doug quixote June 14, 2012 at 6:48 pm #

    A culture and a religion both, as well as a system of thought which permeates the entire society, its laws and its ethics mores and behaviours at all levels.

    Would that it had never existed, but we are stuck with it and with coping with it.

  14. Hypocritophobe June 14, 2012 at 9:59 pm #

    This is what happens in far too rare occasions.(see link)
    These young leaders need to AVOID the two major parties if they do enter politics.Unless, and until, the big 2 embrace reality over ego, egalitarianism over political opportunism.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-06-14/young-people-feature/4071552?section=wa

    It’s welcome indeed, but way too rare.Hats off to kids like this, who put their parents to shame.

  15. Hypocritophobe June 14, 2012 at 11:18 pm #

    And this
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-06-14/abbott-pounces-on-labor-dirt-unit/4070750
    seems to prove 2 things.
    Labor is too inept to use the front foot, and the Lie-berals have something very serious to hide.
    “…protesteth loudly…..

    After the ‘Morrison smelling’ Grech-like, Howardesque, sleazy Craig Thomson crucifixion and ‘alleged’ Sleepy (metaphorical for ‘sleeping WITH’ ) Jackson collusion, these fire bombs are to be expected.

    A country with ‘accountable media’ would be all over this, and all over why we still have no appearances by Abbott on the ABC answering silly little questions or funny lightweight policy propositions.
    Will we see a Royal Commission if certain senior ABC players end up in Murdoch Land at a later date?
    Not likely.

    • hudsongodfrey June 15, 2012 at 12:04 am #

      And what is the Coalition counterpart to a “dirt unit”? While the ALP are still fumbling about trying to find dirt, if I’m not very much mistaken the Liberals have taken a more proactive route with a view to making dirt happen!

      Besides its has always seemed to me that “getting” a political opponent for what Sir Les liked to call “indiscretions on the Bankcard”, is about as worthy as was getting Al Capone for Tax Evasion. It might solve Abbott’s temporary dilemma but it will ultimately been seen as a cheap and tawdry act of a man unworthy of high office.

      Never mind the fact that any Judas in the mould of the inimitable Grech is apt to posses an unfortunate capacity for betraying the betrayers. The hooker was a ring in. And at this stage I wouldn’t like to bet Thomson’s other accuser the unfortunate Ms Jackson doesn’t fall over in due course.

      Of any of the accused much less their accusers I might phrase a sentence starting “I wouldn’t cross an empty street to…”! But that’s hardly the point when the matter is that the stability of government in an economically healthy nation is threatened by petty third rate muckraking. At least Gough sent the place broke before they knifed him, but this isn’t even about the government’s performance. Just some sad little pollies fighting over the naked lust for power!

      • Hypocritophobe June 15, 2012 at 12:31 am #

        All accurate,but your last sentence says it all HG.
        And Labor have WILFULLY abandoned any cred had they had,by trying to emulate the Libs.
        For that reason alone they earn their suffering.
        I can hear the post election speeches already.

        “The voters have sent us a clear and strong message.”

        “I take full responsibility for this result.”
        And sadly,(on the latter) they don’t.

        Our nation is currently being run by spin doctors,or if you like ‘the monkey’.
        The organ grinder is busy in a dark room grinding their organ.

        Maybe Master Pyne can shed light on that particular past time.or better yet perhaps the recently un-vocal Ashby.
        Or number 3 in the room on that fateful night.

        Who was it?
        Graeme Morrison,perhaps?

  16. paul walter June 15, 2012 at 5:33 pm #

    Fascinating convergence. Listening to Sandi Logan on immigration on. the radio whilst reading about Brough being legalled at Hypo’s link.
    Logan is just avoiding the latest Iago-esque Morrison folly, as the ABC interviewer tries to alibi the Sarah Ferguson report. Morrison has some sort of issue about the fact that DIMA has an info site for asylum seekers- this is going “soft” again.
    Amazing, isnt it?
    The number and seriousness of actual and problems in the real world, including in the field of people-movements and a ratbag fixates on THIS?

    • hudsongodfrey June 15, 2012 at 6:16 pm #

      This came up an hour or so as I write, on Radio National. Interestingly whomever it was from the department they were interviewing seemed to take a fairly dim view of Morrison’s Antics. The idea that we have a website that contains pretty much the exact same information as most other countries should according to this interviewee, surprise Nobody!

  17. Hypocritophobe June 16, 2012 at 7:53 pm #

    Steve’s not really a bad bloke,considering his history.

    • doug quixote June 16, 2012 at 8:08 pm #

      A troll gets off on derailing a discussion. This one has attempted to annoy and sidetrack you, me and HG, whilst a certain religious concern troll has occupied far too much of HG’s and your time as well.

      Another troll tries incessantly to derail and sidetrack me, and Bob Ellis, with its attempts at cross-examination, as if it had any standing at all.

      • Hypocritophobe June 16, 2012 at 8:48 pm #

        You of all folk DQ would be unsurprised if I were to expose (copy paste/analyse/precis) the bullshit 3 feet thick over at the public house.
        Much of it he would wisely not wish to draw too much attention to.
        Which he is doing.
        Legally speaking, using our call on ‘him being a troll’, is hardly likely to pass the first hurdle as a fit and proper excuse to peddle piffle.

        But go ahead Steve,keep digging.

        • doug quixote June 16, 2012 at 10:17 pm #

          Suggest we do not feed it any further. JW might well carry through on her suggestion to “part company” with him.

          • Jennifer Wilson June 17, 2012 at 1:24 pm #

            Sorry everyone, forgot to take care of that due to family engagements. Done now.

  18. Hypocritophobe June 16, 2012 at 10:21 pm #

    Our funny little friend said this here,not so long ago.
    I think if you read the first two short sentences,the hair on the back of you neck should stand up.
    It should signal imminent alarm bells,in fact.

    Steve at the Pub May 21, 2012 at 8:47 am #

    Kids & porn? How to get more of it? The biggest complaint when I was a kid, about (then premier) Johannes Bjelke-Petersen (the most multi-culturally named premier yet?) was that we couldn’t get our hands on any “dirty pictures”.

    Kids & porn? How to get more of it?
    Kids & porn? How to get more of it?
    Kids & porn? How to get more of it?
    His words.

  19. Hypocritophobe June 16, 2012 at 11:22 pm #

    (I will put this here for convenience.JW can move it to an appropriate place)

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-06-16/aung-san-suu-kyi-receives-her-nobel-peace-prize/4074992

    This is what /who all humane people can look to to for inspiration.
    The world can rightly be simultaneously proud of her achievements and regret her suffering
    Aung San Suu Kyi is a unique and wonderful person,a generous spirit with a forgiving soul, a generous human being, a selfless warrior, a timeless educator, a beacon of tolerance.Individuals like this extend well beyond the auspices of contemporary heroism She also happens to be a woman.
    This set of circumstances is rare and precious.
    I give you our own precious jewel..
    http://www.australianoftheyear.org.au/recipients/?m=laurie-baymarrwangga-2012

  20. paul walter June 22, 2012 at 5:43 pm #

    News Reports suggest another asylum seeker boat has gone down, this time with about 90 people drowned.
    Apparently, principled backbencher Dr Mal Washer has had enough, advised the coalition to go with the Malaysia Solution and sought backing from Indies Windsor and Oakshott and elsewhere, to urge an end to what we might call the “Abbott/Gillard Solution”, which on current results must be even worse, to encourage the sort of interest of this calibre of people.

    • Hypocritophobe June 22, 2012 at 6:38 pm #

      paul,
      It ‘appears’ Mal is calling for compromise but read the ABC version carefully.
      I seriously doubt the rabid dogs of Nauru will flex.

      “”I think the Coalition’s got to reconsider all its options, and the Labor Party has to too.”

      Mal has left enough room there to let Abbott and Morrison declare the moral high ground with ‘their’ offshore option.
      This will go nowhere but back to the gutter where the coalition live.
      Nothing changes.Only the death toll.
      Where the feck are the Indo authorities?Australia built them patrol boats and fund them.
      These smugglers must all leave from the same area.

      The solution may actually be to actually allow more refugees.And stop the smuggling trade.
      Train our locals to be trainers and Gina and Twiggy can have fully trained, fully paid workers.Refugees can a a life.

      Besides Abbott knows full well if the Navy HAD turned this last boat around and it still went down in international waters,or anywhere, the blood would be on his hands.
      Is it ever safe to turn these corks around?The water is cms below the gunwhales as it is.

  21. paul walter June 22, 2012 at 7:04 pm #

    Thanks Hypo. The politics with this would be so Yes Minister, if the events weren’t so black.

    • Hypocritophobe June 22, 2012 at 8:37 pm #

      paul,
      I am sure Mal is sincere and concerned.However he is but one.
      And Abbott and Morrison are what they are.
      And what they are is abhorrent on this issue(and many others)
      History may reflect this,but the Apathites of Oz are short of memory and shallow of principle.

      • hudsongodfrey June 22, 2012 at 9:19 pm #

        Hypo,

        What if I was to say who are you and why can’t these refugees swim?

        Because that’s how I might respond if I was short on memory and shallow of principle.

        So if I’m not and you’re not….throw in Paul for good measure, I think Jennifer’s okay and I reckon I could even vouch for Gerard and Helvi….Doug and quite a few others. Then who is it that makes up the bulk of apathetic Australia?

        Maybe if they exist at all it is as a result of what either the political parties or an unravelling of our democracy have created. An admittedly shallow but somewhat confected outrage built around the callous manipulation of people’s natural fear and xenophobia.

        I submit therefore that if this country had the leadership of anyone with a moral core and the courage of their convictions then this wouldn’t be happening. Malcolm Fraser could manage it and otherwise he’d behaved pretty bloody shabbily, and I think he knew it.

        There is no “stop the boats” solution anyway shot of sending a few of our own as a kind of delivery service, so I figure that half the country is quietly pained by our callousness and the other half sick to death of the politician’s bullshiting them that there’s something their party can do which the other can’t. Even the bleeding pollies have to be thoroughly sick to the back teeth of this poisoned chalice.

        Why not say, as Obama did on gay marriage…Look I’ve had a little bit of a yarn with m’self and come to the conclusion that these refugees might just work to our advantage. If they’re willing to knuckle under for the same two years that the mob who came here after the war did, be good citizens and pay their taxes, then let’s let ‘em in.

        I reckon just quietly that it’d come as a blessed relief!

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