#pray for the bigots?

22 Jul

free-speech-conditions-apply-graffiti

 

Psychologically speaking, it’s self-evident that bigots are frightened of the group or groups they single out for attention. 

This is one of the characteristics of bigots: they fear a challenge is being mounted to their way of life, their  ideology, their religion, their freedom to be who they feel entitled to be. The bigot’s reaction is to annihilate (metaphorically, but increasingly literally) that challenge, banish it from their landscapes, imprison it if it is already present, and in so doing, make themselves and their identities safe.

Waleed Aly, a thinker, writer and broadcaster for whom I have a great deal of time, argued on The Project that Sonia Kruger, a “celebrity” mother for whom I have no time at all, should not be pilloried for her opinion that Muslim immigration should be entirely banned in this country, a conclusion she arrived at on the basis that she’d seen a child’s body bag with a doll beside it after the Nice massacre and very little else, from what I can glean, other than because Muslims. Aly claimed that Ms Kruger is “afraid.”

Ms Kruger has also fallen foul of several employers such as Swisse, Porsche and Target, for whom she performs as “the face” of their companies. None of them wish to be associated with her anti Muslim comments and are reviewing her contracts. Capitalists have never liked mouthy women and Ms Kruger has apparently gone “off brand,” having been hired for her non-controversial personality as well as the stereotypical  appearance that I think of as the White Barbie look. Honestly, so many of those women all look the same you’re flat-out distinguishing one from the other.

(That companies seek out “non controversial women” is a story in itself, is it not?)

Aly made an impassioned argument for “forgiveness” of such bigotry, rather than the outrage that greeted Ms Kruger’s observations. I confess Waleed has me baffled. Kruger’s comments were outrageously ignorant, and it doesn’t seem unreasonable that those offended by them express that outrage. What better way is there to inform bigots about the unacceptable nature of their bigotry? Forgive them if you want, but tell them what they’ve done first, though I doubt the true bigot will give a damn about either forgiveness or being called, outside of how it affects their income and status.

I’d also like to know what Waleed means by “forgiveness.” It’s unlike him to use such a loaded word without first defining his terms. When does “forgiveness” become enabling? If the offence is serial and without consequence or accountability, why should the offender change his or her behaviour?

I don’t think we can afford to be silent in the face of bigotry. Silence is all too easily interpreted as acquiescence. Forgive the bigots if you want. Pray for them if it’s your thing. Recognise that their bigotry springs from fear. But never cease to loudly challenge it, confront it and contest it. Contestation is not incompatible with “forgiveness.” Forgiveness doesn’t mean being silent about the offences.

Confronting bigots isn’t silencing them, as they’d have us believe. It isn’t taking away their right to free speech. Ms Kruger can continue to espouse her bigoted views from whatever platform will host her: if none are offered she may have to contemplate why that might be.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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77 Responses to “#pray for the bigots?”

  1. Hypo July 22, 2016 at 8:17 am #

    Can’t recall Krugers outrage after dozens of home grown school slaughters in the USA.Body bags everywhere.She unloaded on Muslims ‘because Muslim’.Nothing more.Racist pig using her powerful position to cleanse her skyline.

    I think Aly has turned the corner as far as being a beacon of wisdom or a social bridge.What he did was act as an apologist.”Shock shows” have a habit of sapping peoples intelligence and it looks like the rot has begun..Money talks..

    Compare what Aly said (sentiment) at the Logies (when receiving a gold logie) to this incident.

    Now ‘Mustafa’ is a greater target for racists and bigots and he and his family are once again walking in fear.

    Should we pray for Andrew Bolt too?
    Christians are the greatest offenders and hypocrites here.Where are they seen calling out the ferals amongst their ranks.Pray for bigots?Yeah nah.

    Like

  2. Hypo July 22, 2016 at 8:24 am #

    “That companies seek out “non controversial women” is a story in itself, is it not?”

    [Note for self.They sought out Aly too.]

    Does being used as a token demograph empower the recruit of his/her peers?

    (Rhetorical)

    Like

    • Hypo July 22, 2016 at 9:03 am #

      EDIT^

      Does being used as a token demograph empower the recruit OR his/her peers?

      Like

  3. doug quixote July 22, 2016 at 9:11 am #

    There is nothing new in recent arrivals being the keenest to raise the drawbridge.

    They may well argue that they are best placed to know what is out there.

    Waleed Aly knows that this issue has to be raised to be discussed, and the immediate silencing of people like Sonia Kruger is not the way to go.

    Let all the poisons that lurk in the mud hatch out.

    Liked by 1 person

  4. helvityni July 22, 2016 at 9:44 am #

    I was surprised by Aly’s forgiveness comment. If Sonia is so fearful why stir the hatred pot.

    Me no understand, please explain ,Waleed.

    Liked by 1 person

  5. Hypo July 22, 2016 at 9:48 am #

    Do true bigots ever show remorse?
    Are there any examples of these cretins backing down (meaningfully!) ?

    Forgiveness for a vessel not capable of contrition?
    They say what they say because they know that no matter how deep and severe their damage cycle, they are never truly held to account.
    Bolt has never backed down,shown remorse or moderated his language.Forgive him for fuelling division or inciting hatred? WTF?

    People in positions of power and spotlight (Maguire,Christensen, Kruger,Bolt,Hanson,Bernardi) etc only (if ever) make ‘token’ apologies (after being forced to by the purse strings / spin drs / bosses /other fiscal overlords) to save income,reduce controversy,save the brand,reverse polls and ‘sometimes’ belatedly protect themselves and family.If they were worthy of forgiveness or capable of a meaningful apology, they would have thought before spewing out the bigotry in the first place.It is a waste of time/energy emotion forgiving a person with an empathy deficit.
    Maguire,in fact not only feigned remorse, he is now looking for a third party excuse and reached for the ‘medication’ card.
    Behind closed doors are these high end bigots worse than they appear in the spotlight?
    Imagine the after hours dialogue,with and among their peer networks and associates. Consider the toxins in their data source.

    These ‘folk’ have abused the right to speak freely, and have deliberately chosen destructive language instead.(Kruger was asked several times at the time by her shocked offsiders, so she clearly meant every word) This ignorance and targeted harm should NOT be rewarded,forgiven or accepted.Call it out for what it is.Hate speech. No wonder corporate sponsors are backing away.Not fast enough I say.They should, in fact, have the network concerned put on notice.

    Contrition cannot exist wherever empathy is absent.So forgiveness is pointless.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Jennifer Wilson July 22, 2016 at 10:20 am #

      Well, there is an argument that contrition is not necessary for me to forgive someone who has offended me. That’s working from the understanding of forgiveness as a feeling that brings relief to the victim, rather than the offender.
      In that framework, nobody other than the victim can forgive a perpetrator, so those of us not primarily damaged by the commentary of Kruger, et al, have no right of forgiveness anyway. Otherwise, Hypo, I pretty much agree with your summing up of the situation.

      Like

  6. samjandwich July 22, 2016 at 10:08 am #

    I feel as though I’m constantly forgiving bigots, most often while I’m driving around on my way to work. I’m sometimes tempted to get a dash cam and send footage of all the drivers I capture speeding in school zones to the police… but I feel that to do so would be to give up a little part of my faith in humanity – since I’d be symbolically making the assumption that people will probably do the wrong thing… and that I think rubs off on others when they see a dash cam in someone else’s car and makes them hate people a little more as well.

    (and here I’m inferring that bigots are also likely to have a sense of entitlement and a feeling that the rules don’t apply to them, and are very often shaven-headed blokes with wrap-around sunglasses and SUVs…).

    So perhaps what I’m saying is I think that calling out bigots is both exhausting and also a bit complicated, as it can sometimes lead you to a descent into the world they inhabit. I tend to take the approach of simply freezing toxic people out of my life and only calling out people with whom I have some personal connection. Am I a coward?

    Liked by 2 people

    • Jennifer Wilson July 22, 2016 at 10:23 am #

      I don’t think I can frame you as a coward, Sam!
      I agree, arguing with bigots is a futile process and I don’t tend to do it in my personal life unless provoked beyond restraint.
      But from the platform of Sheep, I’ll never shut up. 😄

      Like

    • Moz of Yarramulla July 22, 2016 at 11:22 am #

      Dash cams are already common and Police already have a policy… they won’t prosecute based on footage. At best you can go in and say “I saw this, I want to make a complaint and I have video”. But if you’re a cyclist complaining about a motorist you can save time by not bothering. From a push bike it’s not just arrogant, own-the-road men that are the problem, it’s the silent majority of “oh sorry I didn’t see you (because I wasn’t looking for cyclists, if I was looking at all)”. The camera is there so that if the police do condescend to get involved you can reduce the amount of “it takes the word of three cyclists to match a single motorist” and other bigotry.

      The surprise isn’t that so many die at the hands of motorists, it’s that so few do.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Hypo July 22, 2016 at 11:35 am #

        Add Pokemon to the threat to cyclists and pedestrians.It’s coming to a street near you..

        Liked by 1 person

    • helvityni July 22, 2016 at 11:48 am #

      ” I tend to take the approach of simply freezing toxic people out of my life and only calling out people with whom I have some personal connection. Am I a coward?”

      I tend to walk away from people who have hurt me badly, I don’t hate them but I know that they’ll never be my kind of people;also the hurting will finally stop.

      Minor issues I can handle by taking a mini break, we ALL make mistakes…

      Liked by 2 people

      • diannaart July 22, 2016 at 1:58 pm #

        I hear, understand and I do the same.

        Like

      • Hypo July 22, 2016 at 2:29 pm #

        It’s one way Helvi.But at a society level we owe it to our brothers and sisters to demand that our leaders (at a minimum) call to account the destroyers dividing and damaging us.We have no such political ability/will or whim in govt.In fact Australia has the opposite.

        So sadly our society no can no longer lay claim to custodianship or ownership of mate-ship,or fair go etc.Long since dead.

        Howard just finished off what Menzies began and honest Mal is just adding some icing to it all.

        Liked by 1 person

        • helvityni July 22, 2016 at 3:51 pm #

          Hypo , I was straying away from the discussion and wrote about how I deal with people and situations in my personal relationships.

          On the political level I’m much braver, I don’t mind protesting, shouting from the rooftops or whatever…I’m just so pissed off that it does not seem to make an iota of difference.

          I really got to know Turnbull during those long eight weeks; yet there he is, our PM.
          I knew Abbott even better, yet he too got elected to the top job.

          Why, oh why?

          I also do not understand why Labor and Greens are so hostile towards each other.

          Liked by 1 person

          • Hypo July 22, 2016 at 4:53 pm #

            the alp and lnp are so far to the right they share the same trough.The reason labor hates the greens stems from the evil militant union underbelly and right wing nutjobs who control it.Labor and the LNP are both a waste of space nowadays,because the way the game is fixed the public keep choosing to risk everything on one of two horses.

            Liked by 1 person

          • Jennifer Wilson July 24, 2016 at 12:44 pm #

            I don’t get that either, Helvi.

            Like

            • Hypo July 24, 2016 at 1:18 pm #

              Then JW rejog your memory and google what Paul Howes said about the greens labor alliance.This is how unions think of the idea, no matter what the policy.The militant unions own the alp.
              The End.

              Like

  7. Moz of Yarramulla July 22, 2016 at 11:25 am #

    Count me as seeing the benefit of calling out bigotry. I’m a bit old to be active in antifa groups now, but I still go to some protests and write letters to people. Less to the bigots directly these days, more often to the people promoting the bigotry because they’re more likely to change their behaviour. If a sustained campaign can make the ABC promote bigotry, hopefully an equivalent campaign can make them stop… know any multibillionaire media moguls you can get onside?

    Liked by 1 person

    • Hypo July 22, 2016 at 11:42 am #

      I think it is also important to always include leaders of the bigots in your calling out of and correspondence.Always cc others when you correspond.
      The weakest link in recent bigot bleating are the (our) leaders.They are the ultimate disablers of hate speech in govt,sports,community,religion etc.In fact Hanson claims this is her moral high ground in her hunting down of Islam.

      These bigots are destroying everything they *claim* they hold dear , and or what THEY say is true blue ‘Strayan’.

      There is no (nada/zero/zip) prevention strategy in our govt/opposition policy set for the drivers of the division which feeds into generational conflict.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Jennifer Wilson July 22, 2016 at 12:18 pm #

      Nope, Moz, I don’t run with that crowd…

      Like

  8. diannaart July 22, 2016 at 11:52 am #

    “Confronting bigots isn’t silencing them, as they’d have us believe. It isn’t taking away their right to free speech. ”

    This is the ploy used by bullies to counter anyone who dares to stick up for themselves.

    As for Waleed Aly – I’m not about to judge and sentence him on just this case. He was to walk a fine line as it is, many times I have been inspired that he has had the courage to present many views on the Project, which must run counter to many if The Project audience. I wonder what level his hate-mail reaches – I have no doubt he receives a lot.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Hypo July 22, 2016 at 12:07 pm #

      I wonder how many of the people who ‘need’ to be turned around /educated /enlightened have seen the light from Aly’s utterings.

      I doubt anyone intolerant of Islam even watches let alone listens.

      On another note I see Turnbull is playing the ‘keeping Australia safe card’ at every opportunity.
      The flags will be out soon,more uniforms created and troop increases to the middle east announced.The easiest way to appease his own RWNJ bigots is to sing from Abbott’s song book.More proof he is no different in action..
      The classic wolf in sheeps clothing.

      Hey Mal, here’s some advice.You suddenly seemed concerned for peoples mental health.
      Good.
      Then rather than raiding the mental health history of citizens to find the bad guys, how about;
      Not creating any more mentally ill people in offshore detention centres, and
      secondly prove you are genuine, and get your own side of politics psyche tested.

      Like

    • Moz of Yarramulla July 22, 2016 at 12:15 pm #

      I thought the slogan was “the solution to bad speech is more speech”?

      I’m not denying your “right”(1) to free speech, I’m exercising my own. If you say something dumb and I point it out, that’s free speech. That’s what free speech *is*. If your employer is unhappy that they employ a nasty person maybe it’s them restricting your speech… you should talk to your union about that.

      When it comes to some of the nastier targeted harassment, I am all for legal solutions. When a group has organised to drive someone off the internet, or our of her home, fukkem. Work out how to use existing law, if necessary write new laws (universal jurisdiction, for example).

      And the anti-doxxing argument is weak with crimes, IMO. Don’t want everyone knowing exactly who is committing the crime? Maybe don’t commit it?

      (1) this isn’t the USA, you have no right to free speech.

      Like

      • Hypo July 22, 2016 at 12:26 pm #

        “When it comes to some of the nastier targeted harassment,”

        Ergo> Last 2 LNP govts,a silent opposition,the usual shock jocks,media players,entitled gobbites and gossipohiles,Hanson, Lambie (supporters of aforementioned) & at least half of QLD etc.

        Even Aly ,it appears, would prefer a warm lettuce.I
        think he missed the only chance to nail this succinctly.

        Leadership vacuum.

        Like

    • Jennifer Wilson July 22, 2016 at 12:20 pm #

      I’d really like to have a discussion with him on this. I have a great deal of respect for him, he’s one of the smartest people around.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Hypo July 22, 2016 at 12:30 pm #

        OK up until now I was a fan of Aly’s contemplations, but I think he is/maybe hamstrung by his actual media role/location.
        Maybe he has a personal loyalty.
        So maybe ask him if “he had to present alternative responses (in hindsight) what would he say/do ?

        Like

      • Anonymous July 29, 2016 at 8:12 am #

        Now that would be v. interesting.
        I’d buy front row tix.
        What’s stopping you from initiating one?
        I consider you to be one, if not the smartest social commentator in this country that i’m aware of.
        I think you’d give Waleed Aly a run for his money.
        Bring it on!

        Like

  9. paul walter July 22, 2016 at 3:38 pm #

    Moz of Yarralumla alludes to the aspect of the media as an apparatus for dumbing down and this is the underlying problem, that capitalism does not want news and current affairs to “honest”.

    Poor Sonia Kruger has probably never heard of people like Roland Barthes and Baudrillard, who spend decades trying to figure how society and culture operate to produce what they produce, including people themselves. The idea that media would be anything but free and above board would not occur to someone inculcated with conservative values from childhood, including contempt prior to investigation, as we have seen from her siege mentality response to criticism. The contradiction between what she does and what she knows is at the bottom of her discontents…there can be little joy in tricking people, which is basically what she is, a salesperson, not a friend.

    Frankly, when i look at right wing women, I see again and again the ghost of Magda Goebbels, brainwashed beyond redemption, rising up, teeth gnashing, from a dark place.

    Waleed Aly is not suggesting she should be applauded for her little outbursts, but rather, others knowing what they know, deal with her as one would deal with a child, because that is what she basically is. That is, a representation of what damage culture can do to people as well as the benefits it brings.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Jennifer Wilson July 24, 2016 at 12:44 pm #

      I like this post, PW, and agree with much of it.
      The difference between Kruger and a child is that the child isn’t in a position to do much harm with her views, or reinforce undesirable stereotypes that divide and destroy others. There’s those who contest dominant culture and those who are unquestioningly enslaved by it, believing it to be “normal” and chaos the only alternative.

      Like

  10. FA July 22, 2016 at 5:17 pm #

    It seems to me we are rapidly approaching a situation in the west, with the same early signs in Australia, where we have one side who honestly says there is a problem, but has solutions that are unpalatable, and the other side who refuses to admit there is a problem at all, while sometimes even giving cover to the problem.

    Islam is in conflict with foundational values we’d all agree with here. I do not find the idea of most of the west having to live like Israel to be palatable. Terrorist attacks are not something we should just get used to, and the French prime minister was right to be booed for suggesting that. What happened in Turkey terrifies me. I see no hope for the legacy of Ataturk surviving; This is the end of a secular Turkey, and possibly the shooting of Archduke Ferdinand.

    While it shouldn’t have to be said, I’m obviously not saying all Muslims. The Ahmadiyya are never going to be a problem – it’s almost always Saudi funded Wahhabism. This also isn’t to excuse the west. It is a big problem that France is one of the world’s major arms exporters, and that’s undoubtedly part of the problem.

    However, I’m increasingly finding the left’s platitudes stomach churning. Hashtags, preaching forgiveness and calling everyone who’s fumbling around for a solution ‘racists’ and ‘bigots’, does nothing to address the underlying issues. What’s really required is to hold everyone to the same standards. That means zero tolerance for cultural practices that we, the cultural majority, do not accept. I mean things like FGM, equal rights for women, and secularism. The story of Charles Napier’s stand against Sati seems appropriate. We must have confidence in our values, and hold our friends and our enemies to them. We also must get away from the idea that non-whites aren’t capable of being terrible human beings without help. There are long standing ethno-conflicts all over the world that existed well before European arrival that continue to this day. (The Bantu and Bushmen being one example. Barbary piracy. Chinese expansionism.) This idea is the source of much division today. It should not have taken a decade for action to be taken against organised rapes of over fourteen hundred English girls by Muslim men because the authorities feared being called ‘racist’. It should not be the case that suspicious behaviour behind many of the recent terrorist attacks was not reported because individuals felt the same. The immediate concern about a backlash against Muslims before the latest bodies have even cooled is insulting, when statistically, anti-Jewish hate crime is orders of magnitude higher than anything seen against Muslims. It all paints a picture that Islam is protected and cannot be criticised, and that is one of the root problems.

    I’d rather the Maajid Nawazes and Ayaan Hirsi Alis of the world were listened to, but if the choice comes down to a Jeremy Corbyn who pretends there is a moral comparison between Islamists and Zionists, and a Pauline Hanson who will openly say Islamic terrorism is a problem, I’ll stand with Hanson. What I ideally want is to not have to make that choice.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Hypo July 22, 2016 at 6:10 pm #

      So many Hansonsesque generalisations (painting pictures as you phrase it) claiming this>

      “Islam is in conflict with foundational values we’d all agree with here”
      Which Islam?
      “Islam is protected and cannot be criticised, and that is one of the root problems.”
      How so?
      You seem to bagging it freely enough.Is Bolt staying mum?
      Hanson mumbling under her breath?
      No protests or political parties which are overtly anti Islam?

      “It should not have taken a decade for action to be taken against organised rapes of over fourteen hundred English girls”

      Royal commission ring a bell.How long has that child harm crime industry been going and covered up for?

      Islam affects my life in zero ways.

      However political interference by christian zealots and illegitimate unelected interferers, rules all our daily lives .Religion has no place in politics and yet it has crossed the constitutional line and remains there- with the approval of our AG it seems.

      It is no surprise you choose Hanson.Who is saying a lot more than “Islamic terrorism is a problem” So on that front your language,like hers; is disingenuous at best.
      The woman is an intolerant racist.

      Her targets vary according to which target is in the populist cross hairs.Indigenous,Asian and now Muslims.

      ‘Terrorism’, is something we all stand against.Whatever its form.
      Hanson is unlikely to help in that effort.Ever.

      Liked by 1 person

      • paul walter July 22, 2016 at 10:10 pm #

        “Islam is in conflict with foundational values we’ve all agreed with”.

        Hypo, thanks for demolishing this person’s comment, the proposition is open ended tosh and ignores the fundamental role of Islam, a culture defined through a religion derived from the same root as Judaism and Christianity, as to the midwifing of our own European civilisation.

        I daresay more informed Muslims like Waleed Aly would be pleased to dissociate themselves Western “Christianity”, given the mayhem and murder the West has caused in the Middle East over the last century, as the pinnacle achievement of our “higher” civilisation”.

        We lost our right to claim a “higher” mandate through our barbaric treatment of refugees from the places we destroyed, let alone the harm done in those places also and the ranting Kruger type denialism only evidences ignorance and a guilt laden regression to barbarism.

        Liked by 1 person

    • doug quixote July 22, 2016 at 7:11 pm #

      Hanson is not a required choice at all. There are reasonable middle courses; it is up to all persons of good will to help find them.

      Like

      • Hypo July 22, 2016 at 9:10 pm #

        “Hanson not a required choice?”
        Unless of course,you’re talking the *’Bogies’.
        I heard someone say the other day that, , that the competition to be “ethnic cleansing’s pin up girl ,2016” was hotting up,
        with 3 very strong nominations. Lambie,Hanson and now Kruger.
        Who will win the major prize [‘The White Bogie’] Award 2016 ?
        Looking fwd to Nazeem Hussain hosting the show.

        * (short for Bogan)

        Like

        • helvityni July 23, 2016 at 8:55 am #

          Hypo, I’ll think about it before I tick any of those boxes: Black, Red or White.

          To remember who they are, I have sorted them by hair-colour.
          Others might see them differently, stout, red or white wine.

          Like

          • Hypo July 23, 2016 at 10:02 am #

            Yes Helvi,they can’t be sorted by their state of origin,cos 2 are from QLD.
            [Funny that.]
            Must be the water.I would not be surprised to find out Kruger was an ‘active’ One Nation supporter.Pretty clear where her vote goes.

            Kudos to you.I think the contestants would appreciate being categorised by colour.Simplifies things.
            Keeping in mind,that for a while Jacquie was claiming to be indigenous, which will create obvious friction with the red one.

            Like

    • Marilyn July 23, 2016 at 2:38 am #

      What tripe, listening to far right nutters like the liar Hirst Ali and the moron Nawaz just re-inforces your own racism.

      Like

    • Jennifer Wilson July 24, 2016 at 12:51 pm #

      Yes. Not to have to make the choice.
      If we were able to unite against terror, no matter what its origins, without attributing its perpetration to a particular religion or ethnicity, we may have taken one step towards not having to make the choice. But as a species, we haven’t got past the tribal.

      Liked by 1 person

  11. Hypo July 25, 2016 at 10:44 am #

    pray for the poor/weak/old/sick/unemployed and disenfranchised.
    Here it comes>
    “The Federal Government will push ahead with an overhaul of the nation’s welfare system, using complex data analysis to pick which Australians are most at risk of falling into welfare dependency.”

    Gee the census would not feed into this attack on the poor and needy would it?

    Wankers.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-25/welfare-system-overhaul-to-eliminate-long-term-dependency/7657270

    Like

    • jo wiseman July 30, 2016 at 8:44 am #

      Not really loving that criticism of a woman is accompanied by the traditional sideways swipe at her appearance. Dressing it up as criticism of capitalists notwithstanding.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Hypo July 30, 2016 at 9:28 am #

        WTF?

        Like

        • jo wiseman July 30, 2016 at 11:59 am #

          My comment was supposed to be about the part of the article that comments on Kruger’s appearance. Maybe I hit the wrong button accidentally because it looks like a reply to Hypo. But it isn’t about anything Hypo said.

          Like

          • Hypo July 30, 2016 at 12:15 pm #

            Seems so.
            So, Jo,

            What is your view on privileged individuals using their popularity pushing ignorant racist/ethnic cleansing agendas from their MSM pulpit, to the detriment of the broader society and at the risk of harm to the targeted community??

            Like

            • paul walter July 30, 2016 at 2:02 pm #

              Nailed it. Jo never learns…

              Like

            • jo wiseman July 31, 2016 at 6:53 pm #

              That’s dreadful. It could be a good topic for Jennifer to write about. I would hope she didn’t single out any females among those individuals for remarks about their appearance.

              Like

              • Hypo July 31, 2016 at 7:09 pm #

                So basically you’re just trolling then.

                Like

                • jo wiseman July 31, 2016 at 10:44 pm #

                  Yep. You trolled me, I trolled you.

                  Waleed Aly said ““While it feels good to choose destruction, right now I think we need to try construction. I’m not saying you should be silent in the face of bigotry. But when you do engage with someone you disagree with, I’m talking about assuming the best in people, showing others radical generosity in the face of their hostility.”

                  How hard can that really be to understand? He seems to be suggesting that it’s possible for ordinary pretty OK people to get caught up in wrong ideas, and if you engage with them constructively you’re more likely to fix their ideas than if you jump on your outragemobile and slag them off.

                  It’s all very straightforwardl.

                  Like

                  • Hypo July 31, 2016 at 10:56 pm #

                    “How hard can that really be to understand?
                    ^ New to Australia, aint ya,Jo?
                    Here’s an example of your naivety, in believing in idealism in tha face of a nation built on lies.>

                    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-31/liberals-divided-over-indigenous-constitutional-recognition/7676140

                    So as this articles title infers,start praying.

                    “He seems to be suggesting that it’s possible for ordinary pretty OK people to get caught up in wrong ideas, and if you engage with them constructively you’re more likely to fix their ideas than if you jump on your outragemobile and slag them off. ”

                    Is he?
                    I would say he is merely protecting his $$ investment (job) .Not a thing more.

                    No surprise.Moths to feed,suits to dry clean etc

                    Kruger has firmly aligned herself with Hanson.Point blank.
                    Aly is defending Krugers right to do so.
                    Good on Him(cough)
                    LOL

                    Methinks Waleed has damaged his own brand.(permanently) , but you haven’t put a dent in yours, Jo.
                    _____________________

                    Like

                    • Hypo July 31, 2016 at 10:58 pm #

                      Typo^ ‘mouths to feed’

                      Like

                    • jo wiseman August 1, 2016 at 9:55 am #

                      Hypo If you have attack Aly’s credibility because he said constructive engagement can be a better approach than verbal attack, you’ve lost the plot.

                      You need to think about what expressing your outrage is supposed to be achieving and whether it’s doing more harm than good.

                      Like

              • doug quixote August 1, 2016 at 7:46 am #

                So it doesn’t matter what the article may say, just so long as no female is described by her actual appearance?

                You might consider however that what a woman wears, far more than what a man wears, gives clues – some none too subtle – about her set of values, agenda and politics.

                Liked by 1 person

                • Hypo August 1, 2016 at 8:12 am #

                  If you appear to be a Muslim your not welcome here, according to Sonia Hanson-Kruger and her ilk.But dare not mention her appearance??

                  This is just Wiseman looking for a meaningless crack in the dialogue,to district us from the core racism rampant in our national psyche.
                  ‘Look over there’ seems to be a common tactic of the right and of apologists.

                  Kruger sits where she sits in her lofty sanitised glowing white perch based entirely on her appearance.

                  Like

                  • helvityni August 1, 2016 at 9:22 am #

                    …white hair, white face, white dress, I thought she was getting married…

                    ‘This is a free country’, the paulines shout and attack Muslim women’s way of dressing themselves.

                    Like

                • diannaart August 1, 2016 at 8:57 am #

                  You have a point. Given that judging women by their appearance is a custom of millennia – often to the point of ridiculousness.

                  It’s a circular thing – humans are very visual; in a male dominated society there’s more pressure on women to focus on their appearance and so it goes….

                  Nor is it no coincidence that as women gain more power, greater emphasis on male appearance is occurring.

                  Besides there is a dollar in it.

                  Having done my own visual critique of Kruger, I described her as a part of that coterie of women who dress like drag queens…

                  I also judge fat white bastards like George Christensen partly on appearance.

                  Then it is a matter of what they do, how they behave – whether this fits in with their appearance – or not.

                  What really pisses many women off is being ogled walking down the street, commented on by some yahoo leaning out of his car, the sexual suggestions and so on. Some days were like running a gauntlet

                  I will not discuss the impact of porn on female appearance, oops I just did; the balloon silicone breasts/lips/butts and absence of pubic hair.

                  Like many aspects of being human, one must use discretion and for that one needs a stable life, good education and good mental health.

                  Liked by 1 person

                  • Hypo August 1, 2016 at 9:32 am #

                    Different topic and there’s plenty of articles here and elsewhere on it.Wiseman has done what it came here to do.Disrupt, bait and steer the thread off course .Seen it millions of times under its many pseudonyms.

                    The point is Krugers ugliness is as 3 dimensional and as stark as Hansons.She is now a powerful mouth piece for the like minded.Tarted up or not.

                    Pity her child.

                    Nazeem Hussein nailed it – without being constrained by industry loyalty>

                    “Sonia Kruger wants to ban Muslim immigration. My cousin wants to visit. Should he pretend to be non-Muslim, or will her Muslim detector catch him?

                    Also, since when did every racist have so many friends from the communities they shit on? Is this a new requirement of the modern racist?

                    That she’ll remain the host of two hugely popular shows on mainstream television after comfortably advocating for a ban on Muslims speaks volumes. She’d have been sacked immediately if it was any other group.

                    I want a ban on racists who characterise my entire community as would be terrorists.”

                    Like

                  • jo wiseman August 1, 2016 at 9:42 am #

                    diannaart, I accept that Kruger has kind of put her appearance in the public domain for comment. What I object to is taking a swipe at her appearance because she’s said or done something someone doesn’t like. It’s a classic way of putting down a woman.

                    Like

                    • diannaart August 1, 2016 at 9:45 am #

                      Yes, women are still valued more for their appearance than men.

                      So we learn to deal with it.

                      By all means speak out about it, but not kid ourselves that all of us value-judge on appearance.

                      Like

                    • Hypo August 1, 2016 at 9:51 am #

                      I have seen people adopt online pseudonyms which are a direct attack on the appearance of another woman.Go figure.

                      Hypocrisy abounds.

                      Like

                • jo wiseman August 1, 2016 at 9:28 am #

                  > So it doesn’t matter what the article may say, just so long as no female is described by her actual appearance?

                  Aren’t you supposed to be a lawyer DQ? You must be capable of making a better argument than putting a complete non-sequitur in someone’s mouth and arguing against it. You do yourself an injustice.

                  Like

                  • doug quixote August 1, 2016 at 5:33 pm #

                    It’ll do for your blinkered comment/reply.

                    Would you like an essay? Send a cheque. 🙂

                    Like

                • Jennifer Wilson August 1, 2016 at 8:40 pm #

                  I just don’t like the white barbie look. That’s all really.

                  Like

                  • Hypo August 1, 2016 at 8:45 pm #

                    White /straight Barbie thank you Ma’m.

                    Liked by 1 person

      • Jennifer Wilson August 1, 2016 at 8:33 pm #

        I don’t know. I just don’t like the white barbie look. I feel ok about saying that.

        Like

  12. Hypo July 30, 2016 at 2:30 pm #

    The irony of a surname….

    Like

  13. Hypo July 31, 2016 at 7:21 pm #

    Tim Wilson demonstrates what the mating call of a hypocrite sounds like>

    “I don’t think we should be turning around to the Australian people … and saying bullying behaviour and bullying conduct and bullying character is something that should be rewarded and put on the international stage to represent us.”

    So either Wilson had his head up his own arse for the entire Abbott tenure, and does not even know who Joe Hockey is, or he is getting the name Rudd confused with Abbott.

    What a definitive tosser.

    Like

  14. Hypo August 1, 2016 at 10:08 am #

    “Hypo If you have attack Aly’s credibility because he said constructive engagement can be a better approach than verbal attack, you’ve lost the plot.
    (LOL) Says you.

    He attacked his own credibility.He is defending a racist,who is using her lofty powerbase and massive audience to defend the queen of racism, and I question his motives in doing so.

    I recognise;
    “He’s alright for a —————————–<(insert race / religious stereotype)"
    when I see it.

    Like

  15. Hypo August 1, 2016 at 8:05 pm #

    Aaaagh Sonia Kruger-Hanson-Bernardi,
    privileged white entitled gob shite bint,strikes again,
    Hell hath no fury like a test tube mother protecting her miracle Jesus child from sexual predators dressed as LGBTI students.Hide them from her steely gaze.Wrap her god like babe in cotton wool.
    Hates Mulsims,hates non straights,look out indigenous people.

    Perhaps it’s a white south African , Kruger heritage talking?

    Let’s see how long Waleeds white flag lasts,this time.

    Like

    • jo wiseman August 2, 2016 at 6:32 am #

      If you get really lucky Kruger will trip up a disabled person on crutches, proving that Aly should be beaten out of town with a stick with nothing but the white shirt on his back.
      You scare me, but not the way you think you do. It’s unsurprising you’ve identified Aly as the enemy..

      Liked by 1 person

      • Hypo August 2, 2016 at 9:31 am #

        You just keep on stoning people with marshmallows and snuggle up in the cosy blanket of denial and complacency then.
        You have still not condemned Kruger in any way.No surprise there either.

        Birds of a feather?

        Like

  16. Hypo August 1, 2016 at 8:34 pm #

    Duly noted that Krugers uniform when vomiting hate on the Vexed Grill is usually white.
    Pin up girl for Stormfront?

    > (Language warning)

    https://smellytongues.wordpress.com/2016/07/28/dutch-courage/

    Like

Trackbacks/Pingbacks

  1. 99th Down Under Feminists Carnival | Pondering Postfeminism - August 4, 2016

    […] No Place for Sheep responds to political commentator Waleed Aly’s discussion of primetime chatshow host Sonia Kruger’s bigoted comments about banning Muslims from migrating to Australia: Pray for the Bigots. […]

    Like

  2. #pray for the bigots? | No Place For Sheep | The Modern [AfroIndio] Times - August 9, 2016

    […] #pray for the bigots? | No Place For Sheep – Aly made an impassioned argument for “forgiveness” of such bigotry, rather than the outrage that greeted Ms Kruger’s observations. I confess Waleed has me baffled. Kruger’s comments were outrageously ignorant, and it doesn’t seem unreasonable that those offended by them express that outrage. What better way is there to inform bigots about the unacceptable nature of their bigotry? Forgive them if you want, but tell them what they’ve done first, though I doubt the true bigot will give a damn about either forgiveness or being called, outside of how it affects their income and status. I’d also like to know what Waleed means by “forgiveness.” It’s unlike him to use such a loaded word without first defining his terms. When does “forgiveness” become enabling? If the offence is serial and without consequence or accountability, why should the offender change his or her behaviour? I don’t think we can afford to be silent in the face of bigotry. Silence is all too easily interpreted as acquiescence. Forgive the bigots if you want. Pray for them if it’s your thing. Recognise that their bigotry springs from fear. But never cease to loudly challenge it, confront it and contest it. Contestation is not incompatible with “forgiveness.” Forgiveness doesn’t mean being silent about the offences. Confronting bigots isn’t silencing them, as they’d have us believe. It isn’t taking away their right to free speech. Ms Kruger can continue to espouse her bigoted views from whatever platform will host her: if none are offered she may have to contemplate why that might be. […]

    Like

  3. The First Amendment and its importance in American popular culture – Marnie Herrington - March 27, 2017

    […] Feature image credit: https://noplaceforsheep.com/2016/07/22/pray-for-the-bigots/ […]

    Like

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