It’s rather difficult to empathise with the marriage equality No crowd’s insistence that they are being “bullied” by the Yes side, given that the postal opinion poll on the issue is, in itself, one of the most outstanding examples of government and social bullying that we’ve seen in quite some time.
Subjecting groups to the judgement of their fellow citizens on the basis of their sexuality is bullying, of the most insidious and damaging kind. Sexuality is an integral part of who we are. It ought not to be the business of anyone other than ourselves, and those we choose to share it with. And yet here we are, bullied into participating in a bullying opinion poll on our bullied fellow citizens.
(Well done, Prime Minister Turnbull. We all know you chose this persecutory path this because you’re scared dickless of your right-wing. We also know that bullies are always cowards.)
The opinion poll is a survey (and I use the word loosely, given it wouldn’t pass muster as an actual survey anywhere except perhaps North Korea) of what some Australians think of the sexuality of other Australians. It is inherently privileged: gay people do not and never will have the right to participate in a government-initiated opinion poll on the sexuality of straight people and their right to marry. (The very fact this comment sounds ludicrous is solid evidence of entitlement and privilege). It isΒ a survey with a non binding outcome if the answer is yes, and a binding outcome if the answer is no.
I understand that the national result of the opinion poll will be broken down on a federal electoral basis, thereby enabling politicians to claim they will vote in parliament according to their constituents’ wishes and not their own. Yet again they’ve worked out a way of getting themselves off the hook. Eluding responsibility is the one skill this government seems to possess in abundance.
Although the postal poll is to say the least haphazard (piles of envelopes left in the rain at apartment blocks; sent to people who’ve left the address ten years before; stolen forms auctioned online and so on) the results will be a permanent record of opinion in each federal electorate without any safeguards in place to ensure everyone in that electorate had the opportunity to comment. It really is an absolute farce, confected by Immigration Minister Peter Dutton and embraced by Turnbull as a way to save his sorry arse from a right-wing kicking. If this isn’t bullying, I don’t know what is.
The No crowd, on the other hand, seem incapable of distinguishing between disagreement, and bullying or silencing. It’s a conservative trait to believe anyone with an opinion that differs from yours is your enemy. According to the right-wing, if you aren’t agreed with you are “silenced.” To this end, the No crowd continues to appear on every available media platform on a daily basis, protesting their “silencing.” Not one of them can see the irony in this.
Here, yet again, we see entitlement and privilege in action. The No crowd is working from the premise that they must be agreed with, simply because of who they are and what they believe. It’s become perhaps an over-used concept since the advent of Donald Trump, however, the notion that anyone who doesn’t believe what you believe is wrong and wickedly trying to silence you is teetering towards narcissistic. It’s also bullying.
So far throughout this debacle, the right has shown itself to be relentlessly seeking victimhood. However, for mine, Shelton’s appearance at the National Press Club last week conclusively undermined his accusations of silencing, both for him personally, and for his followers.
Let’s face it: we should be so lucky…
No Place For Sheep 
Everyone can see their nuts. π
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I would like to aim a sharp kick at them.
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Whatever the results of this plebiscite/survey will be, how very humiliating for the LGBT people this process must be. It’s no wonder many are turning to get help from professional counsellors…I don’t believe many would turn to their churches…for more bullying…?
And to think that this is happening in 2017, when will we ever learn to elect better more humane leaders…
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Sadly, one can only say that the plebescite is just another reflection of what this country has become. Leaderless and clearly the worst quality of politicians in my lifetime, a lapdog to a terrorist USA and with complacency across the board, this is just another divisive exercise by a federal government making Australia, yet again, a joke in the eyes of the world.
There were so many other better options than the chosen one, ultimately the final vote going to a parliamentary vote which is what it should have been all along.
Turnbull’s days are numbered but the alternative is just as frightening.
Save the world from itself, after 2000 + years of religious make believe, the basis for all the world’s ills. Of that there is no doubt.
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Well said, Rex.
I have never been so embarrassed by the standard of leadership in Australia and we have had some mind-blowing examples.
But right now the level of feckless politicians is a clear indication of who we are, where we are going and our total subservience to other countries. Even they wouldn’t be so naive as to require a vote by the people at great cost when it is the politicians that will eventually make the decision anyway.
What a shambles
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Agreed
Obviously we are still evolving as a primitive species in spite of technology.
Nukes based diplomacy or war as a concept, Indigenous youth and traumatised refugees still bound by an archaic justice system, The normality of bombing men, women and children. Daily. The royalty, A society that normalises a persons creationist deity but not that persons god given sexual preference. Divisions of peoples by lines in the sand and human greed and indifference. Opinion inspired by a sensationalist media and governments based on merchant bank ideologies and principles. How was a plebiscite in 2017 Australia not inevitable
Bring on the middle ages I say
yeloperil
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Truffles is a fop, a dandy and a lazy ignorant dillentante who has never done a real days work in his life, inherited millions, married up and his only achievement so far is land fill dumps full of fucking mercury based long life globes.
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Here’s a howdy do! Do I take the opportunity to demonstrate my contempt for the Coalition government, or do I take the opportunity to speak boldly for the human rights of gays? Well, my vote is already in the postal box. I no longer have to consider extraneous bits and pieces because the essential need for equality has dictated which square I ticked.
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Lucky you. I live in Tony Abbott’s electorate and my survey form hasn’t yet arrived. I wonder if that’s a coincidence.
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Do let us know if it doesn’t, Arthur.
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I got 2, I don’t know if I am Marilyn or Benjamin
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Hah! The forms arrived in our corner of Warringah this very day. A happy coincidence, since we only just ran out of bog rolls.
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No sign of mine in your northerly neighbouring (and erstwhile politically-mothering) electorate either. I haven’t been this anxious to see the postie turn up since my first long-distance relationship/-;
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And of course the lazy MSM are making a motza just like they have over 16 years of asking abusing questions about refugees.
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The Sydney Telegraph certainly came up with a nasty headline re Muslims advocating no. Two birds with one stone.
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I’m still waiting for my “ballot” paper, as are many others. Several of us were discussing this on Twitter. AusPost chimed in to advise the forms are being sent put “sporadically”. Sporadically?? The mind boggles.
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Weirdly two people in my house got our forms last week, the other two registered voters have not yet got theirs. I posted mine today rather than waiting for the gathering this weekend because I misplaced it briefly and became paranoid about losing it before I posted it.
Also, “Straight Lives Matter” is amazeballs: http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/2017/09/19/straight-lives-matter-protest-against-marriage-equality-planned-for-sydney_a_23214383/ So much wrong in one place!
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Yikes! This is “Freedom”?? Makes you wonder what these people like to do in their spare time… though I suppose it’s best not to think about it too much/-;
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I seriously want to live in another country. New Zealand is looking good.
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Tasmania?
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Yes Jennifer, NZ looks good; there’s an election coming, and no talk of border protection…
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Except there are lots of sheep in New Zealand so either you’d have to change the name of your blog or embrace identity transformation.
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There’s lots of sheep here
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We actually have more sheep, but the density is vastly less:
70 million in 7.7m km2 v 30 million in 0.27m km2 –
ie 1 per sq km compared to 112 per sq km (!)
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New Zealand definitely has its upsides, normally I would point at racism but sadly NZ Labour have been working to catch up to Australia. And the National party are in power, they’re the same sort of pro-poverty neoliberals as Australia suffers from but not buffered by the large economy that Australia has. I think you’d be shocked at how much more obvious the disparities are in a smaller country. And also, sadly, at how the “clean and green” is actually just mold growing on a carcass. Their current election campaign makes me almost as sad as the “survey” here does, because the have a much nicer, more civilised version of Tony Abbott on the right who seems distressingly likely to win (viz, he lies, gets caught, lies even more egregiously, people vote for him).
https://www.pundit.co.nz/content/which-new-zealand-are-you-voting-for for example, or read the “No Right Turn” blog for a bit.
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OMG. When did anyone ever say straight lives don’t matter.
My prediction is, whichever side “wins” the other side will mount a challenge to the validity of the “survey.” As the “survey” has no safeguards, the results will probably be thrown out.
And the whole thing will drag on & on.
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I think their point is more that truth is for losers, what matters is perception. I had someone use a Cory Bernadi quote the other day in support of their position, and it was one of the “this bad court case has already happened, things will get worse if…” but like Cory they couldn’t produce a link to the court case.
It doesn’t matter if no-one has said straight lives don’t matter, the important thing is that by talking about non-straight lives we are taking attention away from straight lives and de-prioritising straight lives. That is a real loss. The quote “loss of privilege feels like oppression” applies here, too.
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The Bowral postie finally decided to deliver my silly little survey (Malcolm’s Epitaph).
I hear that interested parties are paying for untouched examples… any bidders?
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We just got ours, and I accidentally chucked mine in the big garbage bin. So I’ve just spent half an hour tipping out the bloody bin to retrieve it.
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Since ABS think I am two pple I dispatched both to the bin, I would feel dirty indulging Truffles insanity.
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Marilyn….
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If anyone asks I point out to them that marriage in a church in and of itself is not legally binding. I don’t want a non binding ceremony, (who would?) so they can have that to themselves. If I want marriage I’ll have the legally binding sort. With laws and such. That is all.
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You know you just reminded me… despite living in a strongly Christian society, in Papua New Guinea people often describe their sexual partners as their “husband” or “wife” even if they’ve only known each other for a few days. This sounds to me like the perfect solution: a physical act of “binding” leading to a self-proclaimed marriage. We could do away with weddings altogether… and simultaneously make housing more affordable for first home buyers since they won’t be faced with the social pressure of burning through $20,000 just to legitimate the parts of their relationship that nobody else sees!
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Yes, Sam, but many of us have more than one partner…
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What? How?! Don’t tell me I’ve been missing out all this time!
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I believe some arab countries do much the same thing to work around anti-prostitution laws.
I thought we’d agreed not to talk about marraige equality until after same-sex marriage passes? π
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That is the whole point, pointed out and ignored over and over again.
Gay people married under current circumstances lack certain rights as to disposal of assets, wills etc that belong to heterosexual individuals and couples.
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Yes, that is often forgotten, drsusan, all marriages must have civil validation to be legal.
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And to those wanting to vote “no”, I explain that “No” vote is ok, i.e., there is no need to vote. Remarkably that seems to be working.
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π
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It is rumored that whilst T Abbott MHR was visiting constituents in Tasmania a prepossessing lad was idling in the crowd. Elbowing his way to the front of just more than a brace of well wishers this chap attracted the eye of the aforesaid member who after years in the mannish arts knows a likely lad when he sees one. A kiss was exchanged, and I have it on reliable authority that TA is currently running his tongue over slightly swollen soft tissue, and urgently seeks to make social acquaintance with this young man. T’will out, I say.
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The kiss was allegedly of the Liverpool (or Glasgow) kind.
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Jennifer may I remind you and old saying: He who laughs last, laughs best!
My beautiful Tony Abbott got head-butted tonight in Tasmania by a gay-marriage thug. How intolerant are the rainbow Left? Marxist Wolves in sheep clothing I always say to the missus. I’m always right about these matters. Tony will be remade PM soon. Find that funny? Everyone laughed when I prophesied the rise of Trump.
They no longer laugh now.
Hopefully a hundred thousand NO votes will blossom! It’s springtime too! The snowflakes will soon melt. Their tears will be drunk by the Right. Mixed with much merriment and vodka! Whoo-hoo!
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100,000 won’t cut it Frank. Your maths is as bad as your politics.
LOL
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It is amusing in a country where pooftah bashing was a national sport, that it was Tony’s assistant that “grappled” with the headbutter and not the Institutional kiddie-fiddling sympathizing boxing champ himself, whose most famous instance of his throwing of hands were into a wall either side of young girls head back in the days of the rough and tumble of university politics.
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It’s still “No Poofters! ” in seats like Blaxland and Watson.
Perhaps it is the Islamic influence, as well as the old “no gays in the village”?
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Frank your missus says thanks for the clarification. For years she thought you were banging on about Marxist Wolves in cheap clothing.
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Well, frank, the head butter has declared his assault had nothing to with marriage equality, and I quote: “I just wanted to nut the cunt.”
Reasonable sentiment, I’d say.
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One would need a hard head to damage an already punch-drunk one-time would-be boxer like Abbott.
But it’s worth a try . . .
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We knew the bastards would stir the pot with every tired argument, every old chestnut, every scary image they could dream up.
They did it in every other jurisdiction where the common sense of the electorates there prevailed.
I cannot forgive Turnbull and his puppet masters for putting us through this nonsense one more time when a simple conscience vote in parliament would have sufficed.
And it will go on until mid November.
You wouldn’t bother pissing on them if they were on fire.
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2012 “No” votes
More than a few Labor names here:
Gillard, Emerson, Swan, McClelland, Fitzgibbon, Melham, Burke…
Funny how this issue is of great national importance when Labor are in opposition – just like the Republic!
Oh well…
Mr Abbott Mr Entsch Mr McCormack Mr Rudd
Mr Adams Mr Fitzgibbon Mr Macfarlane Mr Ruddock
Mr Alexander Mr Fletcher Ms Marino Mr Schultz
Mr K Andrews Mr Forrest Mrs Markus Mr Scott
Ms K Andrews Mr Frydenberg Mr Matheson Mr Secker
Mr Baldwin Ms Gambaro Mr Melham Mr A Smith
Mr Billson Mrs Gash Mrs Mirabella Mr Somlyay
Ms B Bishop Ms Gillard Mr Morrison Dr Southcott
Ms J Bishop Mrs Griggs Mrs Moylan Dr Stone
Mr Bowen Mr Hartsuyker Mr Murphy Mr Swan
Mr Bradbury Mr A Hawke Mr Neumann Mr Symon
Mr Briggs Mr Hayes Mr Neville Mr Tehan
Mr Broadbent Mr Hockey Mr O’Dowd Mr K Thomson
Mr Buchholz Mr Hunt Ms O’Dwyer Mr Truss
Mr A Burke Mr Husic Ms O’Neill Mr Tudge
Mr Byrne Mr Irons Ms Owens Mr Turnbull
Mr Chester Dr Jensen Mrs Prentice Ms Vamvakinou
Mr Christensen Mr E Jones Mr Pyne Mr van Manen
Mr Ciobo Mr Katter Mr Ramsey Mr Vasta
Mr Cobb Mr Keenan Mr Randall Dr Washer
Mr Coulton Mr C Kelly Mr Ripoll Mr Windsor
Mr Crook Mr Laming Mr Robb Mr Wyatt
Mrs D’Ath Ms Ley Mr Robert Mr Zappia
Mr Dutton Mr Lyons Ms Rowland Dr Emerson
Mr McClelland Mr Roy
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Tony Abbott can’t even influence his daughters, much less his sister.
For a man who has shown a great penchant for living and sleeping with large companies of men throughout his life I fear Tony does protesteth too much, make of that what you will.
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So bored with Tony Abbott’s stunts.
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I’m a fan. He is an absolute gift, the rosy cheeks in Barnaby’s increasingly purpling head, the poetry in Turnbull’s dwindling vocabulary, the wet on Dutton’s Boo Radley expressive lips, the camp in Pyne’s outrage, the domesticity of Bishop’s stay at home foreign policy management, the panicked hysteria in Michalea Cash’s enthusiasm.
Gershwin would have wrote a great song about him.
The way your smile just seems
The way you sing off key
The way you haunt their dreams
No, no, they can’t take that away from me
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Boo Radley. I love that. Did you see him failing to answer Leigh Sales’s questions on 7:30 the other night? And complaining how the ABC victimised him.
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It’s a bit unfair on Boo, as Boo was a protector of innocent kids and not their persecutor.
Ellis always said Dutton resembled a young Keating, and he’s not wrong, the overbite and the like, however Dutton has those sleepy psychopharma induced eyes like he just got off the table after a frontal lobotomy. He’s got those shoot me full of Alprazolam gone to bed eyes.
I am not particularly a fan of Sales, but she upheld the current policy by the ABC to rein in the pollies to answering the question asked, as they have all grown used to question time in Parliament where a relevant answer to a direct question is no longer even a rough guideline.
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Yes, but Ellis also liked Tony Abbott.
He and I had a huge point of difference over Julia Gillard (he couldn’t stand her, but it went back to his Bakhtiari obsession . . . Give me Gillard any day over Abbott. And as for Constable Plod Dutton, don’t get me started.
Sales is ok most days, but give me Ellen Fanning any day as well.
I wish I could still argue with Bob . . .
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Too true DQ, Ellis’ initial relationship with Abbott says more about Bob than Tony. I was always a little dumbfounded by Bob’s warmth towards him which was genuine. But I do think he picked up on the potential of Abbott from his reading of “Battlelines”.
Ellis insisted the way to beat Abbott was to refute his arguments as laid out in the book and he was right. I was never convinced that Battlelines was much more than a more belligerent Howard revamp, but ignoring Abbott was like ignoring Trump.
By the time Abbott had achieved PM’ship, Bob could see the writing on the wall and noted almost daily that Abbott was as a mad as a cut snake.
The appellation “old friend” soon disappeared.
But Abbott succesffully shifted the momentum in policy emphasis, and there is enough going on below the radar while this SSM nonsense ties up valuable resources and the energies of the “left” while the real world is falling apart in real time in all sorts of directions and which will have a long time effect, a long time, longer than the generally expected lifespan of a marriage.
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Someone, this “ssm nonsense” is a metonym for every inequality in our society, inequality perpetrated by the RW, at times with the assistance of the Left, designed to maintain a status quo that favours the privileged.
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I gotta salute allthumbs, really good writing.
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That was then; this is now.
Since 2012, same sex marriage has been legalised in France, Brazil Uruguay, New Zealand (2013)
2014 in the UK;
2015 in the USA and Ireland;
since then several others, including Spain, South Africa,
etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.
Time to come out from under your rock, Have Anna.
π
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I am not unsympathetic to the whole SSM issue Jennifer, but as a metonym, I would rate, massive technological change and the ensuing social displacement, irrevocable environmental damage, ongoing economic anarchy, finite resource exploitation, massive economic migration pressures, growing government control and privacy invasion as well as the current Nationalist posturing and geopolitical shape shifting to be of greater significance in regards to privilege.
How do you feel about the poor and underprivileged of the Philippines and our support of the extrajudicial murdering of thousands of people by Duterte’s government by giving aid and comfort for his actions in Mindanao?
Our politicians seem unable to chew gum and walk at the same time.
Howard’s shoring up of the meaning of the word “marriage” was a mean spirited change but a very forward looking piece of strategy in the overall culture wars.
The correct response in my humble opinion would have been to pull the rug out from under him and ridicule the whole concept of marriage and shunned it as failing, imploding institution much like the churches that support it.
“nonsense” was maybe a step too far, but in the scheme of things…….
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For the “Yes” movement, “love is love” is a bad phrase and I would have used:
Love and marriage, love and marriage,
Go together like a horse and carriage.
This I tell ya, brother, you can’t have one without the other.
Love and marriage, love and marriage,
It’s an institute you can’t disparage.
Ask the local gentry and they will say it’s elementary.
Try, try, try to separate them, it’s an illusion.
Try, try, try and you only come to this conclusion:
Love and marriage, love and marriage,
Go together like a horse and carriage.
Mum was told by my other mother you can’t have one
You can’t have none.
You can’t have one without the other.
[Musical interlude]
Try, try, try to separate them, it’s an illusion.
Try, try, try and you only come to this conclusion:
Love and marriage, love and marriage,
Go together like a horse and carriage.
Dad was told by other father you can’t have one
(You can’t have none.)
You can’t have one without the other.
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You did well to qualify your stance Anonymous, because fortune of fortunes, Jennifer Wilson is not a single issue writer or incapable of moving beyond a particular mode in discussing a given issue (ok, on some stuff she is unashamedly polemical, but not before she’s sure of her facts)
She does situationalist politics quite as well as identity politics.
All the stuff pol-economic you mentioned in the earlier post like involving globalisation as represented by folk like Duterte, neolberalism,
divisive strains of nationalism ethnocentric stuff, all that would she understand and have her see red, but ADDITIONALLY,she does feminist, refugee and gay politics from the heart, but via logic as well as emotion.
She is a bit of a “soft centre”?
In a way I find that a bit heartening in such a relentlessly anomic, logocentric current civilisational state, there has to be some heart in such a relentlessly Dickensian, empiricist and utilitarian world.
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Paul, anonymous is me allthumbs. Not sure what happened, had a reboot of my computer and settings seem to have been lost.
I respect everything Jennifer writes and she has changed my mind or altered my way of thinking about something through some of her writings.
My stance is not an either or, and i rate feminist and refugee politics and gay politics to the extent the limited extent I have knowledge of a gay political agenda way above SSM.
I have said before that even in the case of gay politics it seems anachronistic to draw the battleline at marriage?
I share Jennifer’s cynicism that whatever the result of the survey the decision will not be clear cut and this is more than likely to tie up the politics of this country to the detriment of other more pressing matters for months to come. The electorate will become bored and the sentiment turn more negative against the yes case.
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Whoops…know about the anonymous bit because it has happened many times after hacks and things, with me also.
I agree that is difficult not to share her disappointment, seems this place is a gathering ground for like minds. I guess my dark issue has been to do with Xenophon selling out on broadsheet, Not often I want to viscerally wring a neck, but on this occasion the impulse is deep and painful
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I haven’t received my bloody form. Just spent 10 min online to get the ABS to send me a form.
Grrr.
Jennifer, one post every two weeks or so isn’t helpful to your loyal readers! We are dying for lack of fodder . . .
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So, next Tuesday a friend’s friend is being buried. He hanged himself. He was an Indian Malaysian asylum seeker who had spent his life being persecuted because of his sexuality. Australia was supposed to be a safe place for him. The non binding postal free for all was just too much. It’s not about the burden, it’s about what you can carry. This postal survey was and is profoundly affecting. I expect the price of this Bill will be actual dismantling of discrimination law. That’s a high price.
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The Tories would laugh at that.
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Yes, they would. They’d say it was his choice.
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Oh lord, that is such sad news, Susan, I am so sorry.
The callousness of this government and its supporters is astounding.
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The conservative rear guard action to entrench discrimination in exchange for marriage equality is exemplified in the Patterson “Cakes” Bill.
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And feel free to share that phrase. As a Victorian Senator he had it coming.
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Patterson [sic]
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The understanding of the issue by the conservatives including the Liberal and National Party No supporters is there continual remarks ” congratulating the Yes campaign” for its win.
Not a recognition of the decision by the electorate as an autonomous, cognizant, reasoning body of its own, capable of making an informed decision of their won volition, but a malleable unshaped lump of clay subject to the manipulation of a “well run” campaign.
If you listen to the Politicos of the no campaign, they didn’t lose, they just didn’t win.
I’m glad the whole thing is over but I have a feeling it is just the beginning.
I would urge everyone here to give support and succour to likes of Andrew, Abetz, Canavan and Abbott to sow the seeds of disaffection and the encourage the coming coup.
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Exactly! According to them, no-one REALLY wanted to vote Yes, they were cajoled and badgered into it by the Yes campaign.
Just another typical example of the Right trying to rewrite history to suit their arguments. Expect more of the same.
61.6% to 38.4% is a landslide. Ask any pollie.
Good work, Australia.
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Doug, strategically Abetz and co are eight steps ahead of the mouse on the revolving wheel powered brain of the PM. Imagine being outfoxed by Eric Abetz.
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The numbers just aren’t there for a coup.
But pity poor Turnbull: brain the size of a planet, and they ask me to take notice of someoe other than me. Call that job satisfaction, ’cause I don’t . . .
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Maybe a first run at it though. Or a trade off, a stop to Muslim immigration, a two billion dollar loan to Adani, a Ministry for Andrew Hastie, a Dutton deputy leadership?
Turnbull’s Estrogen count is up and as someone here astutely mentioned he has an androgynous look to him similar to an aristocratic ageing lesbian dyke.
Andrew Bolt in his typical following orders style is indicating a split in the Libs and I hope his besotted fawning over Michael Kroger has rewarded Bolt at least with the inside running on the end of Turnbull more an effete suicide than a muscular murder.
And that is a pity.
No successor, but revenge is its own reward.
I communicate with Ellis via seance each day, just to keep him up to speed.
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In the end, the illogic of picking on gay people, or any underdog for that manner and from that, the healthy response to politics’ answer to the distasteful schoolyard bully.
More to follow..
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