I don’t know if Craig Thomson is telling the truth. I don’t know if Kathy Jackson is telling the truth. I never know when Tony Abbott is telling the truth, and I’m not at all sure about Julia Gillard either.
That I don’t know when leaders are lying has been most forcefully brought home to me as we’ve witnessed self-righteous politicians and journalists, almost all united in their obsessive desire to get Craig Thomson for something, construct narratives that inevitably cast Thomson as guilty, because it suits their purposes.
I don’t know if any of the people responsible for governing our country and reporting on that governance tell the truth. I can’t even be bothered attempting to establish their veracity. It’s too exhausting. I’ll assume they are all liars until it is demonstrated otherwise.
What has also been most forcefully brought home to me throughout this saga is that we don’t seem to have many journalists anymore. We have opinionistas. I could count on the fingers of one hand the reports I’ve read that deal with the facts. Rather, the media is flooded with the subjective opinions of self-important commentators, most of whom, I strongly suspect, have their own barrows to push though they apparently feel under no obligation to disclose what those barrows might contain.
These are the most powerful arguments I can make for leaving the Thomson matter to the courts, because when all around you are self-interested liars, the law is all that’s left. Even the law doesn’t guarantee that truth will out. But it’s our best shot. It’s all we’ve got.
This blog post unravels some of the complexities of the situation, the ones the mainstream media don’t report. As does this one. And this one. Why, I ask myself, are the self-appointed mainstream experts not discussing these aspects? Isn’t it something of a moral crime to deliberately omit large chunks of a story?
No matter what Thomson has or hasn’t done, the witch hunt continues to be ferocious. To my mind, the authenticity of Kathy Jackson’s claims is equally tenuous, but we have not seen anything like the same ferocity directed at her. The public attacks on Thomson are astounding, whipped up by politicians and media, and why? Because we have a minority government. Would anyone give much of a stuff about the internal upheavals of a branch of the HSU if we didn’t?
Thomson is accused of serious misconduct. Unfortunately, this is not an unprecedented event amongst MPs from all parties. As things stand today, I’m more sickened by the fake outrage swirling around Thomson, perpetrated by politicians and much of the media. I doubt there’s many among this crowd in a position to cast the first stone. I don’t care what any one of them “thinks” about Thomson’s guilt. There’s not one of them whose opinion I trust or respect.
And this is the real lesson of the Thomson saga: that our public discourse is dominated by a bunch of self-interested thugs who care nothing for the truth and are entirely unwilling to permit an environment in which the truth can emerge. Whatever the outcome with Thomson, he has been punished already way beyond his alleged crimes, and the punishment will continue for the rest of his life and the lives of his family members. This punishment has not been sanctioned in the courts. It is entirely arbitrary and administered by an unrelenting moral lynch mob.
For the politicians and journalists feeding off this saga there will be no punishment for their moral failures. There will be no punishment for their destruction of the presumption of innocence on which our system of justice is based. This, to my mind, is the biggest crime in this sorry mess, and the one most likely to be ongoing in its capacity for moral destruction.
No Place For Sheep 
Great stuff, cheers for the links also…
Time for a review of media ownership laws I say….
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EVERYBODY READ THIS LATEST FROM WIXXY: Jackson gets over half million from HSU on top of salary. She is also trustee of HESTA. Last week was spotted taking coffee with partner FWA boss Michael Lawler (on extended leave) and Christopher Poodle Pyne: http://www.independentaustralia.net/2012/politics/thomson-6-the-falling-few-and-the-fall-guy/
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Well done again, Wixxy. I read that article yesterday. This issue is red hot. What I would like to know is where and when exactly this meeting took place. I would like to see our noble media investigate this meeting. Next time KJ is on the 7.30 Report, Chris Uhlmann should ask her about this.
Meanwhile, Craig Thomson votes with the Coalition, to the great embarrasment of Mr Pyne and Mr Abbott.
Here’s a task for the media. The next time Chrissy Pyne appears on camera, ask him about
1) His meeting with Kathy Jackson and Michael Lawler;
2) His meetings with James Ashby;
3) His embarrassed rush from parliament this morning.
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2A) The hickey on your neck
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I still blame John Howard, for creating a culture of politicians only doing something “because it suits their purposes”.
(which is only half of the story, because there is actually a lot of good work going on in the background, mostly courtesy of the public service, which keeps our society functioning and gives our leaders the opportunity to keep bickering. But we never get to hear about that)
Nonetheless, it seems like under this situation it would be logical to assume that the only people who can be presumed to have any integrity these days are the independents (at least those who are this way voluntarily!). Viz, Rob Oakshott’s comments on RN this morning.
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The stink coming from the desperation of the Liberal’s reeks to high heaven.
Maybe, just maybe, the public has had enough of their behavior.
They are strongly pushing again, that this is not a duly elected government. One ex Liberal went as far as saying the voters got it wrong.(John Drowd ABC 702)
Oakeshott suggest that the Liberals be referred to the Privilege Committee for intimidating a duly elected MP from exercising his vote. I believe it is a crime to bribe a MP to vote in your favour. Surely preventing MP from voting is just as great crime. It is not his vote, it is a vote on behalf of his constituents.
In my eyes, what is occurring from the Opposition is pure bullying. It needs to stop.
The parliament is not and should not be judge and jury. That is where it begins and where it finishes.
Both Slipper and Thomson are entitled to sit there, unless one of three things happen.
Is convicted and sentence to a jail sentence of more that twelve months.
Becomes bankrupted
or resigns.
Is it proper for the Opposition to take action that may lead to Mr. Thomson to becoming bankrupted.
That is what they are attempting to do.
Either bankrupt him. or have him tried and convicted outside the judicial system.
By the was, the man has not at this stage been charged.
Is being in Opposition a licence to bully and intimidate.
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Hehe, were Tony Abbott to be caught with either a dead girl or a live boy, it is unlikely to change voter’s minds.
There is a reason the next federal election is being called “revenge day.”
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Chipinga
Custard
Rusty
ABC4ALP
etc
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And in an interesting ‘put them off the scent’ twist aka WA Redneck
“Latham on Sky news the other night was laughing at the’rank hypocrisy’ (his words, not mine) of the ALP in this presumption of innocence defence they keep uttering.
Latham recalls the relentless pursuit of Howard ministers and even Governor General’s by the ALP, in most cases the individual in question was never evn charged with anything.
Latham ‘ALP have a long history of running mogrels (sic) out of office with no trial'”
WA QLD same same.
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I do not put much value on the FWA report. I suspect their Independence.
That is not the main reason for my opinion. The reason I say what I do, is the fact that the FWA does not have the power to carry out forensic investigations that are needed. They have produced numerous finding that have not been tested.
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They are desperately trying to stay in power to the next election. What I do not understand is why the Opposition is so desperate for power, that they are not willing to wait.
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Because the longer Labor is in power the more they will stuff up.
The greater the damage the harder the job the libs will have fixing it
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If there is any problem, it’s in the task Labor has faced in repairing the damage done by Howard.
And Abbott’s bloody-minded obstructionism, regardless of harm done to anyone else or the nation.
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I took some of what DQ said the other day and…..
Sadly I lowered myself to the 7:30 report to see if Uhlmann had changed tactics/techniques.
I watched him interview the walking refrigerator-mouth Jackson.
(No sign of butter dripping from the corners of her mouth, at all!)
What I noticed were a few things,but two stood out.
Uhlmann asked some ‘tough-ish’ questions, but he did follow through.
He was not the relentless ‘bitch’ he was/is to Gillard,Brown etc.
He did not persist,as persist he does(normally) He did not follow up with a stinging accusatory claim,aimed at cornering his victim.He was as far from his relentless ‘best’ as I have seen him.
He showed more temperance and respect for Jackson than for our highest office.
Go figure.And excuse me,but the lady was well rehearsed on the answers,let alone the questions.Wonder why?Lawyer reviewing the questions or no interview anyone?
No ambush like 4 Corners and Gillard? How convenient.
You decide why this would be.It smells way too much for me to approach it again any time soon.
The other thing I noticed was,body language.Jackson’s.
I have no reason to think the ‘unavoidable’ dead give-away squirms/blinks,wriggles,shuffling etc of ‘concealment,holding back etc by way of expression has changed of late.( Has it?) Hands glued to her thighs.
I would not want her on my team,that’s for sure.Abbott probably would(Possibly has???)
Thanks for the links JW.I have read most of them.So no big surprise we all stand stunned as to why the MSM is not pursuing the claims made in them.
All is well apparently.At least that is what the ABC 24 mob, via Jonathan Holmes, have said.Guess we can all sleep well tonight knowing Mr Holmes has spoken.
And remember this is the Mr Holmes who thinks self regulation for the media is just dandy?
We don’t need an independent watchdog?
So what does that make Media watch?
Oh yeah,a Spoof of itself.
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once again, a great read! unfortunately this country has become a ‘place for sheep’ if we allow this to continue…
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..and I have no idea of the whole phone usage claims by Thomson,but after what happened in the UK with whole NOTW scandal I do know this.
I would be very surprised if it were not possible to hack a simcard,duplicate it,or have a phone bill doctored somehow.
It may or may not have happened,but the technology and opportunity could certainly exist.
*********************************************************************************************
Complicated conspiracies aside, Thomson is still entitled to the presumption of innocence,and moreover a fair go.
And even more importantly we are all entitled and should demand a civil,respectful parliament /government (The Opposition is reprehensible) and an ethical, accountable media.But we don’t.And we have very few within bemoaning them there current outcomes.
I think it’s official.As a society, we are as close to irreversible moral bankruptcy as any scary sci-fi civilisation the best authors could have envisaged.
Bring back Keating!
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Dowd not Drowd.
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The final paragraph of the post above:
“For the politicians and journalists feeding off this saga there will be no punishment for their moral failures. There will be no punishment for their destruction of the presumption of innocence on which our system of justice is based. This, to my mind, is the biggest crime in this sorry mess, and the one most likely to be ongoing in its capacity for moral destruction.”
According to Mark Latham any claim the ALP had to the concept of “innocent until proven guilty” went west at least 40 years ago:
“I was part of a team effort where we drove the Governor-General of the country(Peter Hollingworth) from office and even better than that, the Labor Party drove John Kerr from the same office basically because he was pisspot and unfit for office and did the wrong thing in sacking the Whitlam Government, so you know, the Labor Party has a rich history, a proud history of driving mongrels from office and no one said, oh, no, John Kerr, presumption of innocence! There’s been no court, there’s been no charges, there’s been no conviction. Maybe he’s a drunk and he embarrassed us at the Melbourne Cup, he sacked the Whitlam Government but no, no, no, presumption of innocence or Peter Hollingsworth, presumption of innocence. Or any number of a dozen ministers in the Howard years that we were trying to drum out of office and out of Parliament as quickly as possible. No one said, oh, no, presumption of innocence. I heard Jenny Macklin talking about presumption of innocence. She’s standing up there chasing Michael Wooldridge one time about crook MRI tenders. She never said oh, look, he’s done all these wrong things but Mr Speaker, presumption of innocence. He’s really not such a bad chap and we’ll let him off on this occasion. So the whole thing reeks of hypocrisy. Thomson should be judged on a moral standard not a criminal standard and on that moral standard he’s as guilty as sin.”
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Only a rusted on neo-Liberal,ex-One Nation worshipper would be silly enough to play the Mark Latham card.
ROFL
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Hypo, is that your inept way of saying that Mark Latham has his facts wrong? Which part of his statement is not true?
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All very well as far as it goes – the persons Latham referred to had in fact done just what they were accused of doing and either fell on their swords or were shoved out by their own side in damage limitation.
It now appears Thomson may have been the victim of a clumsy set-up. See the link in my post below (23 May, 6,38)
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Stevo,
No I’m saying you were sold a pup.A lemon.
Interesting you played the Latham card.
Noting your form,I have no doubt you would also argue in defence of the Howard lie about ‘GST never ‘the line that things changed,as did his position and the imperative,etc.
Yet you now argue (via a Latham cut/paste) that on Presumption of Innocence Labor is somehow disallowed/disqualified because of previous positions/events,even if the players are a whole new generation of individuals.It does not work.
Latham is a poor strategist to cite.And the Kerr Hollingsworth scenarios are laughable examples of the tenet being discussed.
I think you will find Hollingsworth fessed up to what he was accused of.It was his motivations which he argued were admirable.History shows his judgement was flawed.He stuffed up.No government of either side wants a compromised head of state,ever.One was enough.
As for Kerr,if you think it was simple as one individual,you inflate the man beyond his sad and sorry dipso-facto status.There were wheels and deals,Do some reading.
Sorry.You are comparing apples with oranges,and we have no idea where Latham got the fruit from in the first place.
I wonder what Australia would look like now if Latham had won?
There would be no Abbott in Canberra,that’s for sure.Old Marky would have kicked his lily white #&%* as soon as he piped up.
Oh fate,you cruel mistress.
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I don’t think people are really quite so ignorant that the Thomson affair is another witch hunt coming hot on the heels of the coalition’s hatchet job on Peter Slipper.
I suspect that their accuser’s character and specific accusations aren’t adequately examined because they’re not themselves politicians or public figures and therefore not held to account by either parliamentary process or those peculiar standards the media apply in terms of how interesting their erstwhile victims are to their public. Nor are their motives held to account because I think we all know what they are and whence they likely emanate.
In fact what I would argue is rather that the majority of the unquestioning public overlook obvious ulterior motives and plot flaws in the narrative of the witch hunt when they by and large assent to the kind of dirty politics that might given the change to chip away ever so slightly longer at the edifice of Labor’s tenuous hold on power grant Tony Abbott the early election he so desperately craves.
His craving may well be interpreted as a mixture of his impatience and misgivings that the dreaded Carbon Tax won’t turn out to be as bad as he has painted it. The fact remains that if the people who are going along with his witch hunts are not just incidentally ignorant but are willingly so, then it probably means that his ability to marshal fear in his cause has a limited shelf life.
The way I see it is that with the tax free threshold rising on July 1 from 6K to 18K that is very roughly a $4,000 dollar sweetener to offset the Carbon tax that is going to be a little harder to ignore when it hits the pay packets of Australian “Working Families”.
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Hudso, good points. But there are very few in the nation who believe the opposition has to do anything to get into government. The next federal election is shaping up to be an epic thrashing of the ALP (just like the recent Qld election). The only game, and it is mainly for the ALP, is can they reduce the size of that thumping?
Julia Gillard, not only Australia’s worst Prime Minister to date, but arguably one of the worst ever leaders of a liberal democracy, is going to enter history as the person responsible for the (near) demise of the ALP.
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The problem for your argument Steve is that after July 1 what Abbott has to do in order to meet his promises if he is to get into government is to raise personal income taxes quite substantially, and at the same time force energy costs back down.
Getting rid of the Carbon tax would I think be as painful as the alternative, and he knows it which is why I believe he’s almost in a state of panic trying to force an early election.
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Amen to that. Good point Hudso. This is the liberal party dilemma. The ALP runs the country out of money, then the liberals are voted in to fix it, but nobody is going to like the belt tightening that has to happen. Particularly those who are not self-reliant.
Thus, practical consideration: The sooner the liberal party is in, the lesser the size of the debt.
and political consideration: Were an election held now the ALP would be wiped out. Things are so bad for them that their fortunes can only improve. Politically, an election now is an ideal time for the liberal party.
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The problem is Steve that I think action on climate change is both necessary and should also be thought of as action in favour boosting our longer term energy security. So though perhaps not all elements of the specific plan Labor have hitched them selves up to are good winding it back would be tragically regressive. And since coalition policy hasn’t really moved away from an even more costly direct action model on this issue alone I think Abbott takes a quite questionable stance.
He may lead the popularity polls in the face of a lacklustre performance from an incumbent hampered by unholy alliances with disparate partners, but at the end of the day I don’t actually think it will provide the kind of investment certainty that works for either the electorate or the economy to put what are basically mining interests ahead of everyone else’s.
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If elected, Abbots toxic agenda will see the shortest duration of any Liberal/National coalition.
They won’t even need to paint the lodge again.
If the Libs are that stupid to stick with a liabilty-in-a-suit, 3-4 years in and then decades in the wilderness is wholly appropriate.He will never repeal the carbon tax.He will raise the GST.
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It would be a nightmare to raise the GST in my view. But one I don’t know we’ve any reason to really worry about. I admittedly don’t like listen to too much of what any politicians say, but I think if Abbott had threatened to do that then it might have made it’s way into my conciousness. Have you actually heard him say so?
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“Politically, an election now is an ideal time for the liberal party.”
Syntactically, that sentence is wrong. I think what you meant to say was something like: “Politically, now is an ideal time for the liberal party for an election to be held.”
I think you’ve got the phrase “election now” on the brain.
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Silky, pls pass this response up to HG,I have no ‘reply’ button below his comment.
HG – No I have not heard TA say he was putting the GST up.
(Nor have I seen where he hid the paper he wrote it down on.)
But as Petr Tosh nearly said, “I have faith that the sun will come up tomorrow”, and I (we all) have a very large dataset of “Predictable Liberal Behaviour”.
Silence is a first indicator.
The clincher-Not one single journo has broached the subject of this Superman guaranteeing fiscal control,yet his every policy (all three) is to spend big,and slash all the taxes Labor installs.
That’s the waxen seal.
Let dawn be my judgement.
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Hehe, maybe so Silky! At least it can be said that for once in my life I’m in step with the rest of the nation!
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“At least it can be said that for once in my life I’m in step with the rest of the nation!”
Wrong again. The phrase “election now” is on the minds of the Liberal trolls and their media allies, who are fortunately in the minority.
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Silky, think about why the ALP is going to extraordinary lengths to avoid a byelection in Craig Thomson’s seat.
Australia is looking at a Qld state election style wipeout of labor at the next federal election.
Think I’m wrong? Just wait & see.
ALP = 23% primary vote. It is, and has not been for some time, a question of whether they can retain government, it is merely a question of the size of the wipeout.
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If you must feed the Trolls Silky,lace the bait with ample cayenne pepper.
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Absolute rubbish. Gillard is a fine collegiate leader of a fine ministry.
Man for man and woman for woman, Labor’s ministry is superior to the shadows.
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She is not a leaders bootlace, she is a knee jerk reactionary moron spooked by Abbott in their personal wars.
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Bring back Keating!
We need a coconut hunter in the Lodge.
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Now, now Marilyn, give me some credit for judgement in these matters. Gillard had to stitch up a deal with the Catholic Right to ensure rolling K Rudd in the first place. She is stuck with a deal whereby she promised to respect their socially conservative agenda. The way to change that is to get her a good mandate in the late 2013 election. Electing Abbott seems to be the alternative, one too horrible to contemplate.
That may change after August sees the innocuous carbon price do no damage to anyone other than the big polluters.
Jennifer, remember your promise not to attack Gillard, in contemplating the alternatives.
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I haven’t attacked her for AGES. Have I?
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Go and tell that to the refugee babies Gillard has imprisoned for life.
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Can she change the legislation? Have even the Greens tried to do so, recently?
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All that aside Hypo, you did not respond to the question: Which part of Mark Latham’s statement is untrue?
Furthermore, please point to where I have stated that the ALP are “disqualified” from becoming born again believers in presumption of innocence.
You aren’t an engineering or science graduate, that is for certain. You aren’t able to read for comprehension. Jennifer’s post finished with an intimation that “presumption of innocence” has just now been trodden on.
Clearly that happened at least 40 years ago. By the ALP. Who are chronic offenders, (despite your bullshit claim that it was a “generation ago”) and have been at it ever since.
You aren’t competent to continue this discussion. Jeering is not a substitute for debate.
Is there anybody here with, you know, actual rigorous scholastic ability? Please?
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Your so hard Steve,
and I have tried my best up until now to avoid considering you could just be Trolling, but then this.
From http://www.corridorkitchen.com/2012/04/on-community/
It’s just too Pauline for me.
So bye-bye,
__________________________________________________
Steve at the Pub says:
April 30, 2012 at 11:11 pm
Oh, the Food Blogging Community?
From the photos, one could be excused for thinking you’d joined the Chinese/Vietnamese (or east-asian) Community.
Your next mission, should you decide to accept it:
Research & write a post on why the food blogging community is top-heavy with east-asians, when their numbers Australia wide are less than 1-in-20 of the population!
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You aren’t up to my intellectual level Hypo, give it up. I don’t engage wits with the unarmed.
Do your parents know you are using the computer while they are at work?
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Of course he is trolling. An intellectual lightweight, as suggested by the moniker.
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I now carry a picture in my head of Barnaby Joyce at the end of the ‘after show drinks’, (post the Prize Ram Judging) at the Craggy Island Fair.
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Well since you asked Steve, I would say it’s perfectly reasonable to argue that Jennifer’s last para is saying that this is merely one instance of the presumption of innocence being trampled on, rather than a first time.
I enjoy listening to the rantings of a broken man as much as the next bloke, and Mark Latham often has very interesting points to make – as long as you apply the same moral standards to him as you do to everyone else.
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Indeed I don’t believe for a moment this is the first time presumption of innocence has been trashed by pollies and media. Probably the eleventy billionth? But who’s counting?
IMO none of them can be trusted to make a moral judgement and the law must be applied.
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“dipso facto” bwah ha ha HypocritePhobe. with regard to everyone, anything and everything** in Canberra
we can dispense with ‘innocent until proven guilty’ and try ‘liars until proven truthful’.
No GST. No carbon tax. I totally support my leader. etc
** thinking of Defence morals scandals
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You can call me hypo,
save some ink.
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Vexnews has revealed that Michael Lawler, the husband of whistleblower Kathy Jackson, was a member of Opus Dei when Tony Abbott made him VP of what is now Fair Work Australia. Lawler is strongly anti-union and pro-workchoices.
http://www.vexnews.com/2012/05/whipped-high-ranking-fwa-official-michael-lawler-flipped-from-opus-dei-to-the-dangerous-cult-of-kathy-jackson/
The wacky Ms Jackson-Lawler has defended herself against questions about the involvement of her husband in her vendetta against Craig Thomson, but she has admitted to reporters that she has asked her husband for his advice and assistance.
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Listening to the Jackson interview.
Are you aware of any union officials before Thomson being accused consorting with prostitutes? NO.
Maybe the weasel word is” before”. There are definitely accounts in the past.
What was her ex-husband accused of?
Thomson sent a letter to the ABC saying that all he said in his statement is in the public domain.
Mr. Thomson said nothing that I have not heard him say before.
I am waiting for the media to prove that statement wrong.
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And I believe Jackson would like a right of reply in the House.How convenient.A place where she can say anything and get away with it,even though unelected to the House.
Pyne et al will keep prodding this wound.It keeps the spotlight off his tryst in Slippers office with Ashby and another.It surrounds their leader with thick smoke.
if the MS media ever actually did their job……….
Media I hear you say?
*****
Be prepared for some medical certificates and mystery illnesses a la Godwin Grech.
Can anyone else smell the putrid odour of Minchin and Abetz?
PS_I do hope Malcolm has rehearsed his speech.
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Jackson-Lawler has said that Craig Thomson’s speech was delusional, but that is a lame defence coming from someone who is herself delusional, and is simply a case of projection. Just how delusional she is is shown by her announcement that she is seeking to address parliament herself, though I must admit that if such a thing were possible, it would really be a hoot.
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I was bemused by Jackson’s demand that she be given right of reply in Parliament. Wouldn’t she have to be elected first? A small point, I’m probly just being picky.
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I think you will find if you dug deep enough that very idea of “right to reply’ came from the other side, to put out any potential spot fires,so as to avoid the sleazoids having to swear on a Bible in a court room.
I doubt the Thomson case will ever get to court.No-one wants it.
If he does half of Canberra will be on the dole overnight.
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A person who is adversely named under parliamentary privelige, in the manner she was named by Craig Thomson, does indeed have a right of reply. This is not new.
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Jackson can address Parliament in the HoR?
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Presumably so, there is plenty of precedent for people not elected to address parliament. In fact it happens quite often.
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Steve, Haranguing from the gallery with a “ditch the witch” sign doesn’t count.
I’ve never seen or heard of any unelected person (royalty aside) invited to speak on the floor of parliament. And should they be brought before parliamentary committees to provide testimony in any number of matters then they aren’t afforded parliamentary privilege. You know, the kind that allows that you can’t be sued should you defame another person.
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It is simply incorporated in Hansard. She doesn’t actually speak on the floor of the HoR;s.
I have been paying attention to politics in this country for fourty odd years and the Jackson-Lawler affair is up there with Rouse’s attempts to bribe Cox to cross the floor in Tasmania in the eighties. Why is Thomson, who hasn’t been charged with anything, somehow unfit to represent Dobell yet Mary Jo Fisher, a Liberal Senator from South Australia found guilty of assault, passes the oppositions test for what constitutes a fit and proper person to hold public office.
And Abbott’s defamation case comes up for hearing next month. How can we have a guy who shootrs his mouth off running the country?
Andrew Elder over at Politically Homeless was right – Abbott isn’t Fraser in Sluggos, he’s Snedden with a rosary.
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RE Lachlan Ridge and Andrew Elder, I second it. Rarely not worth a visit.
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There are three other prerequisites,JW.
Perfecting the ‘hate speech’ her string pullers scribble down for her.
(Aaagh the smell of Norsca!)
Learning to speak on one side of her tongue, and getting really juiced up to muster the balls to do it.
Unless the juice is sodium pentathol why would anyone tune in?
They could play Johnny Cash singing “Jackson”, as she ambled into the chamber, and I’d still have the sound turned down.
….hotter than a pepper sprout, we been talkin’ ’bout Jackson, ever since Chris Pyne came out…..
Apologies to anyone offended,especially the Johnny Cash aficionados.
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Well I am a Johnny Cash fan.
I’m goin down to Jackson, “Goodbye” was all she wrote.
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I was just wondering when Chris Pyne was going to come out?
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Top explication from Jennifer. There is little doubt that Thomson’s behaviour would invite no interest whatsover in the normal scheme of things, but because parliament is “hung” and the Coalition needs to get rid of just one or two people to force an election, we are subjected to the usual fear and loathing/end of civilisation as we know it memes from Murdoch style media to induce an emotional reaction in the public before the information is in and considered properly.
I should add that someone whose political knowledge and acumen i respect, is critical actually of Kathy Jackson and her partner and beleives that to a degree Thomson was actually set up, Grech-style.
Union politics can be Boganish, as we all know, and it is certainly interesting that media brings forth an example of this sort of politics, particularly at this of all times.
But that’s all that can be drawn from Thomson’s situation. The fact that Thomson is involved in a rivalry with Jackson may be unfortunate, but to say, in effect, that this in itself disqualifies the entire Labor party from government is neither necessary or sufficient.
Particularly when the alternative is a corrupt plutocracy run for the benefit of people like the Murdochs, Palmers, Rineharts and the like.
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I am very surprised no-one in the rag trade has suggested a previous extra-vocational relationship between Jackson and Thomson.I reckon lots of folk have been thinking but not saying it out loud.
Or has that already surfaced and sunk?
Strangely of the key players the only player not so far accused of getting into ‘political’ bed with the noalition, is Thomson himself.
Most of the other roads lead the same way.
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Yes Hypocritophobe,
Zigactly what people I know are driving at- the complex set of events and relationships mediated by “culture” that background the current antic, going back nearly a decade, now seen through a glass darkly and needing to conform to the aims of present political operators, Including those in different factions with Labor itself.
Its all unpleasant, but not necessarily for the simplistic reasons advanced by some at these threads, but its interesting watching human nature in action some times, like watching grubs in a glass exhibition cage going to work on a dead mouse.
Media Watch covered it well again last night and the Blogger Mr Denmore has a beaut piece up at his site examining who the real villains are in all of this, also.
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The simple fact is the FWA did not say what the media claims it said.
It said in fact there were no rules, he broke them.
And all the lies told by Jackson are a hoot.
In February the president was replaced by Gillard because Jackson claimed there was political interference with FWA but it was her boyfriend from FWA who was interfering with internal FWA politics and that is what started the hunt down of Michael Williamson – and it was all over the false claim by Lawler that another union official was using blank cheques for her own benefit, it was her own cheque to pay her own rent on her own home.
Jackson though has been in and out of the mental hospital with her delusions.
The MSM though won’t publish the truth because they all look like morons.
And Paul, you can use my name, everyone knows we are friends.
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That was supposed to read Jackson’s boyfriend was interering in internal HSU matters and it looks like Jackson was working from the FWA office.
She is not a whistleblower, she is a deluded fruit cake.
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@JW
Have you seen the Dewey Cox Walk Hard flick??
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How dare they be so disrespectful of the man in black?
I guess anything is funny if you do it right. After all he’s not the messiah…
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No. Should I? Is it good?
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It is as good as you deem fit,but I liked it.Yes you should.Curl up with your fave drink on a rainy Sunday(maybe Satdee) arvo/evening and bliss out.
Try not to think about The Man in Black as you watch.
Maybe get Brother Where Art Thou , out at the same time and throw in some intermission snax.
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Couldn`t agree more. On trust with Joolya and Mr Rabbit my default position is they`re bullshitting, until proven otherwise. With the embedded media, my default position is they won`t/ can`t/ don`t/ tell us the important things we need to know, but will create a truck load of white-noise about the trivial.
Sadly, too often this IS what happens.
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Readers are invited to look at this article :
http://www.independentaustralia.net/2012/politics/craig-thomson-under-the-rain/
I have been of the view “So what if he did all that was alleged?”
But the article examines some of the evidence and it appears that Thomson may actually be the victim of a rather clumsy attempt at a set-up.
Read it, please.
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No left wing proletariat on this comments thread, that is for certain!
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(A site suitable for adults only DQ.Coalition supporters possible, but only with a legal guardian, holding their sweaty six fingered claws.)
Hackson would not have gone on the 7:30 Distort without knowing the questions(with legal input) and rehearsing the suitable answers No doubt ticked off by allies in the strangest places, where loyal unionists could never imagine being without a garlic necklace and a wooden stake.( Slackson is way over her heads.Its impossible to believe the MSM has NEVER reported her obviously numerous meetings with Libs and Lib friendly people,given her status.That would be huge news and a coup at that)
It’s a setup alright.Thomson is not the Messiah he’s a very naughty boy(at worst), but the MSM won’t touch the truth with a ten foot pole.
The big boys have wrapped this saga in high voltage Teflon.
The opposition (and the scum who jumped the fence) would no doubt be happy to see Craig Thomson completely physically, destroyed,or worse.Mal Washer has already sounded the alarms.
At least Mr Holmes has ticked this all off as completely above board.If there are any anomalies or conspiracies media self regulation will no doubt sort it.
Every dog will eventually have their day.Even Kathy “Stab In The Back-son.”
But maybe I am a cynic.
As if governments and business leaders have inappropriate relationships.
Palmer is an imaginary force and……
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-05-23/leaders-join-liberal-forum/4027666?section=wa
never happened.
No wonder the nation is being logged,mined and fracked to death.
Anyone care to have a squizz at Ruperts share portfolio?
And Newmans QLD?
Ugly one day, grotesque the next.
As for SA?
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-05-23/libs-leader-tells-women-to-ignore-discrimination/4027684
Get on with it girls!
Maybe a certain legal litigant should heed this strong knowledgeable woman’s advice.
“In 40 years in the law, I’d have to say that by and large, those who avoid the legal path often are better off.”
“Ms Redmond said more had been done to achieve gender equality in the workplace by women who put up with discrimination.”
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Yes, I agree with DQ this piece should be read.
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Thanks Jennifer. Ellis republished it, with permission, on his blog.
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Now there’s a skill the MSM could do with.READING ! .They are real good at WRITING (crap).
Who knows they may even develop the most rare of good journalistic skills.
LISTENING!!
If they combined their current MONO skill with the Holy Grail skill they could be………..?
You guessed it.
REAL f*cking grown up journalists.
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So, Kathy Lackson-Jawler wants to adress parliament. This is a problem, as she is not a member of parliament. I have an idea. Kathy, why don’t you run for parliament? I understand that the seat of Dobell may soon be vacated by the Independent member Craig Thomson. Why don’t you run there? Let the voters in that electorate decide between your story and his? Marco Bolano can be your campaign manager.
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Today Tony Abbott confessed a vote for him is a vote for the Reith policy of Worchoices2 (Heavy Duty Version) and a new campaign to trash workers rights,smash the union movement and protect bosses by giving them unfettered control of wages/hours/conditions.
He failed to notify us of the policy the big miners demanded from him.Foreign workers for new mines under Abbott which will equal lower pay and AWAs.
Nothing really changes.
At least the non-conservatives won’t need any coalition type fear campaigns.The truth will suffice.
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Do you not think, that if we social progressives got our way, and a situation were created whereby sex work was de-stigmatised and became a legitimate career choice freely chosen by thinking people without any element whatsoever of exploitation or sexism, such that visiting a brothel would be seen as a perfectly acceptable relaxation activity, like going to a restaurant, then perhaps the Honorable Mr Thomson wouldn’t be in nearly the pickle he is now in?
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Do you not think, that if we social progressives got our way, and a situation were created whereby sex work was de-stigmatised and became a legitimate career choice freely chosen by thinking people without any element whatsoever of exploitation or sexism, (I would think that is already the case in a large slab of the workers) such that visiting a brothel would be seen as a perfectly acceptable relaxation activity,(hopefully yes,but we are shackled by the mental pygmies of the religious right who must evolve into a world of science and reality,first-as they have a nagging habit of developing habits of nagging) like going to a restaurant, ( a tip at both ends of the transaction???) then perhaps the Honourable Mr Thomson wouldn’t be in nearly the pickle he is now in (yes) ?
So in short in a modern adult society with a free and accountable media, an opposition with scruples and businesses who valued ethics/scruples/morals/corporate citizenship/worker welfare/elders/the fair go principle, we would be like another species by now.A much better happier species. If we cannot do what we want with our own physical vessel(when it does no harm to others) we have /are nothing.
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I very much like your last sentence Hypo.Very much.
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Thankyou JW.(blush)
Just saying……
I like many of your sentences too, and most of your sentiments.
You may use my words for good, if you so choose.
I know they are in safe hands, IMHO.
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Yes. I do think that.
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The Thompson affair is the last throw of the dice for Abbott and his body language pointing to that fact is palpable, as is his attack poodle, Ponce Pyne. This saga is soon going to involve the Liberal party who are in this set up, up to their scaly bollocks. If they can’t get an election before the world (according to the conservatives) ends because of the carbon pricing, they ‘ve had it.
Contrary to the polls and what other rancid right wing squawkers think, Gillard is going to be reelected.
After Gillard is reelected, she should then order the federal police to start arresting some of our more notable luminary’s in our rotten to the core, corrupt, with more bias than a pomey wind jammer in a gale force wind media, and water board the fucking lot of them, until they turn Blue. Sorry they already are.
This whole bullshit media beat up would make uncle Joe Stalin and Joseph Goebbels proud.
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+ 1
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Welcome, lynot! Are you reading my mail?
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No. But I will if you like?
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lynot you have quite a turn of phrase. I specially like scaly bollocks.
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No But Bob Ellis evidently is,…
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/4024132.html
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Glad you noticed. I tried a major posting, of HG length; we’ll see how it gets treated by the mods.
I have no objection to people quoting me, so long as it is in reasonable context. (blushes slightly)
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Oh, I see Ellis is in agreement with DQ on the matter of the authorship of Shakespeare’s works.
And that Mr Ellis has banned GK Cole. For three years. That will please you Hypo.
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Cole the Troll? Boo hoo.
Good riddance(and all its other festering disguises)
(It really shows the damage that a combination of narcissism,denial, irrelevance,hormone imbalance and bad personal hygiene can do to a blogger.)
Good on you Bob.(It will be back.It can’t help itself)
*******************
Still getting used to the new look here JW.
It’s a bit like the interior of a freshly refurbished medical centre.(Not in a bad way!)
My eyes are slowly telling my mind to deal with it.
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Unfortunately it has several ‘alters’ there already. It really does need help.
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Bob may have to change his membership rules to include all newbys need to provide some sort of firm ID or cooling off period/email correspondence first etc.
Even talking elsewhere about ‘it’, pumps up it’s gnat sized relevance.
Never answered a question in its internet careers.
Just asks, repeats and pontificates.
Maybe someone could stake out an STD clinic or check out the local good Sammy bin at night.
2 places it would have ‘frequent flyers’ in.
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Aaagh the joys of mining!
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-05-23/mining-towns-say-deadly-highway-a-disgrace/4029018?section=justin
Let’s see Campbell fix this without his constituents cash.
Time to step up Clive.Best put the Titanic on hold.
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And finally lawyers are going to challenge the Al Kateb laws in spite of Bowen prattling like a cretin.
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First Mal Washer sounded the warning bells,now Thomson has sounded his for the second time.
The median and the Opposition are pressing this man perilously close to the edge for pure political gain and sensationalism.Let the justice system and police deal with this.
Where is the leadership and humanity in the MSM and from Abboot down?
I really fear for Craig Thomson.
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EDIT
median = media (Obviously)
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The media need more victims.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-05-24/italian-dad-at-centre-of-custody-battle-expresses-concern/4031468?section=justin
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Is anyone aware that the entire story is about nothing.
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I am one; the trick is to convince enough Noalition supporters that it is a dead duck, and that so are Abbott and Pyne, in particular.
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Apparently that’s what the prostitutes said about Thompson. He was a dead Duck or words to that affect.
Still if this saga has achieved anything, it confirms what most people think about politicians, a waste of space, the lot of them. Then there is the remuneration being paid to Jackson. What a joke. Her members are cleaning the arses and wiping up the dribble and spew from patients, she is quaffing down champers and caviar, with gay abandon.
For mine put Abbott in power, the fuck wits that are going to vote for this cretin are going to get a rude shock. If they think its bad now Well!!!
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I heard Chris Schacht and Fran Bailey this morning on ABC 24.Schacht nailed the impact of the current war on Thomson and exposed Bailey as the standard Liberal apologist.Tripping over herself supporting the toxic mess the Liberals have wilfully created.The bully boys wheeled out a little old lady to save their souls.Yet another Liberal perversion on their quest for government, at any cost. Feigning her now rancid beyond reproach party’s concern for Thomson, she too followed the latest mantra, by putting the blame back on Gillard.There they are.In perfect lock step, gleefully washing their talons and refocussing on their next target, all the while shedding caustic, crocodile tears.
Sorry to disappoint Ms Bailey et al, but the Australian Federal Liberals, and the majority of our country’s media, are now beyond culpable for the current physical and emotional welfare of Craig Thomson.As the perpetrators and participants in this blood lust you, the Liberals under Abbott, have failed in your Duty of Care.It is not just the Prime Ministers obligation.A man in your workplace is at peril by way of your actions, Mr Abbott.You have failed to provide a safe working environment for an employee.Craig Thomson has exercised his Duty of Care by alerting you to this.He even did it officially when he addressed the HoR.He has been alerting you before and since this occasion,but still you failed to act appropriately to protect his physical and emotional well-being.
You have continued to knowingly pursue this man directly and through the media, for something which may or may not have occurred before his employment as a Federal member.
Yesterday Mr Abbott launched his Great Big New Sympathy campaign.
One where he switched the bile and hate driven campaign back at Gillard.
So now it’s switch from bullying Craig to bullying Julia.
So if she takes her life in her sleep tonight Tony, because you say ‘it’s all up to her’,what then?
Bully the Governor General towards suicide for not sacking Gillard?
Bully the Independents towards the same position for not supporting you, initially?
Bully the voters of Australia for not supporting you?
You are a sick man Mr Abbott.
Your party, and the insatiable media gallery are beyond obscene.Beyond irresponsible.
You must go,Mr Abbott.You have no visible honour, no sign of empathy.No conscience.
It is you who preside over the lowest ebb of our Parliament outside the ravages of a war.
Not Julia Gillard.This is not her doing.It is by you and for you.It is the opposite of polity.
It is the antipathy of leadership.It is totally devoid of any human, or humane qualities.
The Media? (Notwithstanding there is a tiny percentage of fair and just journalists still behaving rationally.)The best, and possibly only thing the mainstream media can do, to regain any microscopic nano-particle of credibility is to apologise to Craig Thomson, and his loved ones. To BEG for his forgiveness for fuelling, refuelling and perpetuating this nationwide hate campaign. Or seriously, STFU.The media has become an irresponsible parasite preying on the weak.Thomson is well within his rights,to NOT forgive, to not accept any apologies.Who would blame him?
Tell me the media,especially the MSM is not currently running bets on when the government will fall.Waiting for something to give, someone to crash and burn. To scoop the prize pool. Poking,prodding, pushing and prying. Playing with peoples lives like it was footy tipping.
And now Barry Cassidy has the gall to feign concern.
Too late Barry,way too late.Your a proud Insider.A willing player. Remember?
You too, are contaminated, like the rest of the posse. Could anyone seriously consider after all you have said and done, all you have fostered and agreed with, that you can now rise above and outside the gutter where the vile stench of hypocrisy flows?A place where the tabloid opportunists and impostors ply their sadistic wares?
History will record your part, and that of each and every ambulance-chaser in gutter journalism.This includes the ABC.
Alarm bells, Barry? Excuse me?
You helped release the dogs, and not just on Thomson.You helped bate them.Time to review the overall content so far Barry.Judgement is not observation.Yours and your cohorts role is to report,not condemn.
You, and most of the media, have been dog-whistling the same tune as Abbott for so long now,that if we close our eyes, the tonal difference between media and opposition is indistinguishable.Not only have Abbott and the Liberals trashed democracy,they have done untold damage to politics generally.
This is to be expected where the opposition has been aided and abetted by a readily compliant media, who joined enthusiastically in a campaign where compassion and civility were the first casualties.
Craig Thomson was right in his speech.You know it,Barry.The entire Nation now knows it.It’s time to feel the impact of his words. I, and most probably anyone else whose life was/is impacted by suicide, any feeling human being will find this current situation an abomination of Human Rights in the rawest sense of the term.
Sleep well Barry.Sleep well ABC and the media of Australia.Sleep well Kathy Jackson.
Sleep well Liberal party.You got your story.However this ends,the ending is yours.All yours.
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A bit harsh. What about Alan Jones he’s fair.
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Oh yes,cruel of me really,Lynot.
Care to go halvsees in twelve yellow roses to AJ, from me and you?
A nice pink floral card and some cure words too.
Ending of course with XXXXX
****************************************************************************
Did I just see a yellow bellied QLD blue heeler squirm through the cat flap?
Wearing an Armidale Shire dog-tag?
Shooo,flea bag! Shooo!
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Only if I get to do the eulogy.
On a serious note, I thought the media in this country would never get away with purging another government, just goes to show me I don’t know shit.
Still look on the bright side, one term of Abbott, and the Liberal party will be in the wilderness for twenty years. Abbott will make Billy Mc Mahon look like Albert Einstein.
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You have the Eulogy gig!
On the serious note stuff;
Starting to agree.
If the ‘so called’ Liberals ( supposedly they are fecking loaded with lawyers-go figure!) are too blind to see,install Abbott.
It can only end one way, and it will be a short but painful journey.
He’s creating a period of contemporary social cancer so his future Lie-beral ( Lie-feral ) party can wheel out another ‘black arm band view’,history re-writing exercise.
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Indeed. But s you know the Australian people are a fickle lot, they may surprise us yet. If not, I fear for my grand children’s future. The Philistine Abbott will indeed try and take us back to the Dickensian days of industrial revolution but in reverse. Still the tactic used by the modern Liberal party to gain government is nothing new, the only difference is, they have traded the brown shirts and jack boots for Armani suits.
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Looks like we may as well go to the polls now.Labor has already started to implement the Coalition Policies as per Clive Palmer’s blueprint.
“Aussie workers not being trained,foreign workers being exploited.”
Good work Julia.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-05-25/agreement-to-bring-in-foreign-mine-workers/4033676?section=justin
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None of us know shit with pollies these days. Once we did but not any more.
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I am still reasonably confident that we will never have the misfortune to find out what Abbott would do as PM. He may not survive past August as OL.
But in a way, I hope he is OL for the next decade. LOL!
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Gosh, don’t go off your meds again Hypo! The men in white coats will take an interest if you start foaming on like this.
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SATP <3s KJL xxx
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Have another beer.
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It’s a honour to have you in the NPFS community, Hypo. A feckin honour.
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It’s a pleasure to contribute.
And great to have a place to do so.
Many thanks to you,JW and the other Fair Go practioners and championers in this place.
It’s sad that the House on the Hill has become the opposite to it’s purpose.
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First we have no justice.
Now we have the total perversion of it’s principles.
And exploitation of the area of mental illness to avoid your due.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-05-25/liberal-senator-asks-for-legal-costs/4033742?section=justin
Please note the lawyers name.
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Second Labor figure Jeff Jackson embroiled in union brothel scandal
• by: Rick Wallace and Brad Norington
• From:The Australian
• April 2009
A SECOND influential ALP figure has been accused of spending union money on escorts, with enemies of Victorian union boss Jeff Jackson releasing bank statements showing payments to the same Sydney brothel where federal MP Craig Thomson’s credit card was allegedly used.
Police were called to a union meeting in Melbourne last night as it descended into yelling and brawling between rival camps.
The meeting was called by Mr Jackson to reassert his control on the union’s management committee. Mr Jackson, a prominent figure in the Victorian ALP, dismissed the claims against him as a politically motivated “dirty tricks campaign” and denied any misuse of union funds.
As secretary of the Health Services Union’s number 1 branch in Victoria, Mr Jackson has been embroiled in a bitter power struggle with branch president Pauline Fegan.
Ms Fegan last night called on him to resign over the emergence of credit card statements showing the payments to ‘Keywed Pty Ltd” – which takes money for clients of the Sydney Outcalls escort agency.
“It’s a union-issued credit card and it has been issued to Jeff Jackson,” Ms Fegan said. “On the face of it, it appears the union credit card has been used for escort agencies,” she said. “He should have resigned ages ago, that’s the reality.”
The factional dispute is at the centre of the claims of misuse of union credit cards for prostitutes and election campaign funds that threaten the career of Mr Thomson and could damage other senior party figures.
Mr Thomson yesterday strenuously denied allegations his union credit cards were used to pay for escort services and to help bankroll his election campaign for the federal NSW seat of Dobell in 2007.
In a terse statement, Mr Thomson dismissed as “incorrect and false” allegations that he had misused credit cards during his term as federal secretary of the Health Services Union, including cash advances exceeding $100,000 over five years.
Mr Jackson stressed that – unlike the Commonwealth credit card statement alleged to be Mr Thomson’s – his name was not even listed on the union Bendigo Gold Visa card concerned.
Federal Labor, however, is already in damage control over the issue because of the risk that it could engulf not only Mr Thomson, who is chairman of the House of Representatives economics committee, but also his mentor, the new incoming ALP national president and HSU union chief Michael Williamson.
Mr Williamson faces no allegations. He is the primary union and Labor mentor to Mr Thomson, having backed Mr Thomson as Melbourne-based HSU national secretary from 2002 to 2007. He then supported Mr Thomson’s move to Sydney before the 2007 election in a bid to run for Dobell.
The source of potentially serious collateral damage to Labor figures is a nasty battle for power in Mr Jackson’s HSU No1 branch as he fights to win control from union president Pauline Fegan.
Mr Jackson and Ms Fegan have been brawling for weeks, making claim and counter-claim against each other about alleged misuse of union funds.
Their battle erupted on the national political scene yesterday with the allegations against Mr Thomson, dating back to his five-year term as federal secretary.
According to published documents, officials of Mr Thomson’s former union concluded last year that his Commonwealth Bank credit card had been used to withdraw cash advances totalling $101,553 over five years.
The documents also indicated Mr Thomson’s card was used to pay $330 to operators of a North Sydney escort service called Aboutoun Catering, and two payments of $570 and $2475 to Keywed Pty Ltd Restaurant in Surry Hills, a company listed as escort agency Sydney Outcalls Network.
Pty Ltd Restaurant in Surry Hills, a company listed as escort agency Sydney Outcalls Network.
Mr Thomson yesterday withstood Opposition pressure to step aside as a committee chairman. He said he had sought legal advice about possible action against “the sources” of the false allegations against him.
He was confident an independent audit and an investigation by the Industrial Registrar would find no basis for the allegations.
Kevin Rudd took no action against Mr Thomson. A spokesman for the Prime Minister said Mr Rudd would await the results of inquiries before making any decision on Mr Thomson’s committee role.
The allegations against Mr Thomson were first detailed in a leaked letter written by Kathy Jackson, the HSU’s national secretary and head of the union’s No2 branch.
Ms Jackson’s involvement further complicates the puzzle for the Labor Party and its involvement with the wrangle.
She is the former wife of Jeff Jackson. Her new partner is Michael Lawler, a vice-president of the Australian Industrial Relations Commission, whose industrial registrar is investigating Mr Thomson.
As news of the investigation sparked by Ms Jackson spread to embroil her former husband yesterday, Mr Jackson dismissed the claims against him as a politically motivated “dirty tricks campaign” and denied any misuse of union funds.
He said there were several union cards at the time and there were also doubts about the dates of the payments.
He was recalling all credit card statements from the union’s archives to prove his innocence.
The leaked Bendigo Bank credit card statements, obtained by The Australian, show four separate payments to Keywed between December 2003 and March 2004.
The payments, one of which was made on Christmas Eve, were for amounts ranging from $330 to $405. There were two payments made on the same night on one occasion – March 18, 2004. The statement lists the Health Services Union’s No1 branch as the account holder but does not say who the cardholder is.
I think this article in the Australian in April 2009 pretty much proves Thomson’s case.
Note the dates Jackson is claimed to have gone to the brothels on the general card and then 18 months later Thomson is accused of using a card in the name of ThomPson.
And Jackson’s buddy Fegan snidely points out the difference.
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Swap the letter C for the letter K….
Don’t want your lo-o-o-o-ove anymore.
Don’t want your ki-i-i-i-isses, that’s for sure.
I die each time
I hear this sound:
“Here he co-o-o-o-omes. That’s Cathy’s clown.”
I’ve gotta stand tall.
You know a man can’t crawl.
But when he knows you tell lies
And he hears ’em passin’ by,
He’s not a man at all.
Don’t want your lo-o-o-o-ove anymore.
Don’t want your ki-i-i-i-isses, that’s for sure.
I die each time
I hear this sound:
“Here he co-o-o-o-omes. That’s Cathy’s clown.”
When you see me shed a tear
And you know that it’s sincere,
Dontcha think it’s kinda sad
That you’re treatin’ me so bad,
Or don’t you even care?
Don’t want your lo-o-o-o-ove anymore.
Don’t want your ki-i-i-i-isses, that’s for sure.
I die each time
I hear this sound:
“Here he co-o-o-o-omes. That’s Cathy’s clown.
That’s Cathy’s clown.
That’s Cathy’s clown.”
_______________________________
Bought to you by the Jackson Family
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Brilliant.
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An unedifying tale if ever I’ve read one.
Its all stale, but the mistake is to think an isolated union or quango somewhere where its been detected as being (possibly) an exception to an orderly norm.
The trickle of news that barely reaches the mass media also about the Trillion dollar corruptions conducted by Halliburton, JP Morgan, Murdochs, Koch bros etc, barely get a thought in all this hubbub about whether someone signed the cab-charge sloppily or not… funny that!
At best, union critics can point to unions as examples of a system, but if that’s the case its the system that is skewed, union officials at worst are no worse, as tip of the ice berg, which is to say nothing compared to what’s obscured.
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Who was the pratt in charge of Visyboard who the media and pollies said was ‘licensed’ to be a market manipulator,based on his charity donations and an AFL presidency.?
Richard someone?
“He’s OK,he’s one of us!”
The Libs wallow and revel in the old ‘my shit don’t stink’ argument.
It’s a traversty the Australian media have lost the ability to read and listen.(Give or take a few beacons of hope) They have morphed into a chorus of repetitive gannets,regurgitating putrid, fishy, smelling gunk to the willing orifice of public opinion.
Sadly that same public is being fed nothing to sustain its health, (as in these images.)
http://householdname.typepad.com/my_weblog/2011/04/httpwwwsfelectricworkscomnewsletternewsletter-110329austinhtml.html
But then, some people will swallow anything…..
_____________________________________________
One thing’s for sure though. There is no shortage of guano in Canberra.The farmers WILL be pleased.
_____________________________________________
I’m off to the Wizard, the wonderful Wizard of Oz……..
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The moral being that rich pratts with deep pockets can hire more and better mouthpieces than plods like Thomson, you or me.
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Strategic timing or irony?
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-05-26/inquiry-into-workplace-bullying/4035072
This is one topic the Libs can’t go near with a barge pole, until they have a major cull.
Abbott,Pyne and Abetz will probably need tongue transplants because biting them for such a prolonged period is sure to see them fall off through necrosis.
This is what must have happened to their hearts.
Possibly at their swearing in.
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Reminds one of the Wizard of Oz : One looking for a heart, (Abbott), one looking for a brain (Barnaby) one looking for courage (Hockey) and all of them looking for a policy.
Abbott as the Tin Man; Hockey as the cowardly lion; and Joyce as the Scarecrow.
Hmm, works for me.
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Is Dorothy Julia or Chris Pyne?
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Nice one DQ
( I’d argue they could all do with a brain but…your other observations are on the $)
The rest of the coalition are Munchkins?
Who’s the wizard Clive,Malcolm,Rupert, Keating?
(please let it it be PK!!)
Sorry HG,as we know, Pyne is Toto.
And as an animal lover it hurts me.A lot.
The media is the tornado,completing f**king the place.
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Pyne is Toto! Thanks, Hypo.
The Wizard has to be Rupert, surely – manipulating everything from behind his grand false front.
Dorothy? Hmm.
We’re not in Kansas anymore, Toto.
Closest match for Dorothy must be Julia. Can she win through, and will Toto be neutered rather than put down? Can Abbott find a heart (and a brain??)
Watch the next thrilling episode . . .
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Do you think the Wizard has a paper shredder in his pocket, or is he just pleased to be seeing Ms Brooks on visiting day?
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At 81 he should be pleased just to be vertical, unless Wendy has snake-charming skills . . .
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Yes Doug I think Julia has a nice synergy with Dorothy. Whether it is a red shoes with the red head, or the fact that Julia really ought to click her heals together, remember that there’s no place like home signally a return to actual Labor party values.
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Why are you so besotted with Gillard? She’s a horror story in the mould of Hanson combined with Howard.
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I guess she’s not Abbott,which certainly quadruples her appeal.
I still think no matter how hard Labor tries,she has been damaged beyond repair by the other side and their pet media.
Brainless coalition punters & easily converted fence sitters so easily duped, have no cerebral capacity to change their views unless they are told.
That’s the only reason Keating lost his last election.
The media told (hypnotised/mesmerised) them (‘the coalition of the milling’ aka the thick section of the electorate)Keating was an arrogant arse.
Which he was at times,but he was a genius, a statesman and a straight shooter.And a consummate politician.AND! He could kill with a phrase.
Australia lost a shit hot chance to do great things.
Being an arrogant arse is not a reason,when the rest of the CV was as stellar.
On the same criteria Abbott should be sweeping sh*t and blood from abattoir floors with his tongue.He WISHES he was arrogant.’Roads’ scholar maybe.Laying tar.
If he gets in, I’m off.
I won’t need to be gone long though,his own loyal fluffers will disembowel him within the first year.
To support Abbott is to wilfully choose to join the final battle in the destruction of our social fabric,which Howard began.
There are also enough survivors from Howard’s era still in power roles,so nothing leads me to believe the Libs are on Howard’s message 100%.
If there were a brain amongst them ANYONE would be leading by now.Turnbull the obvious choice.
Hockey is a clone of the Skipper from Gilligans Island.Look where they ended up.
A 3 hour tour……………………?
Labor could be clinging to a dying dream in backing Gillard.And some of her decisions indicate the strange decisions are not hers.
Perhaps she sold too much of her soul to axe Rudd.The payback has locked her into a straight-jacket.The opposition bullying should have been attacked by all sides of politics, the media, church and broader community.Hypocrites,all.
It’s bullying pure and simple and the damage is done.
See now, why I adopted the number plate hypocrit-o-phobe?
I HATE/fear we are/have becoming a nation of them.
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Because I really do think that she is the best leader available for the foreseeable future. I know why you dislike her, Marilyn, but either of the two psychopaths who faced each other from late 2009 until June 2010 would be unmitigated disaster.
Any new leader for Labor now would be counterproductive and disastrous; we’d face an election almost straight away, and even if the polls are way out, the Rabbit would become PM (DQ gags and vomits . . .).
Is that reason enough to learn to love Julia?
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This post has become quite musical. So will I.
Something for Mouseketeers and Puddle-Duck Fans.
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In the immortal words of Elmer Fudd, “Where’s that Wascally Wabbit?”
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Unfortunately still Lurking in Canberra until the 2013 poll.
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But with any luck not as OL much longer; look for action about August/September, if Hockey the cowardly lion can find some courage; perhaps on a ticket with Turnbull, and turf out ‘everyone’s loyal deputy’ along with the Wabbit.
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ROFL `everyone’s loyal deputy`
Aug/Sep, nice idea, but Mr-Rabbit and the the rest of Team-Bunny think they won the last election and, the voters got it wrong, or the vote-counters. My guess is they will run the Rabbit to the next election loss, before ditching him.
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Run rabbit, run!!
Just so we can get musical again and play Bright eyes.
Is it a kind of dream, Floating out on the tide, Following the river of death downstream? Oh, is it a dream?
There’s a fog along the horizon, A strange glow in the sky, And nobody seems to know where you go, And what does it mean? Oh, is it a dream?
Bright eyes, Burning like fire. Bright eyes, How can you close and fail? How can the light that burned so brightly Suddenly burn so pale? Bright eyes.
Is it a kind of shadow, Reaching into the night, Wandering over the hills unseen, Or is it a dream?
There’s a high wind in the trees, A cold sound in the air, And nobody ever knows when you go, And where do you start, Oh, into the dark.
Bright eyes, burning like fire. Bright eyes, how can you close and fail? How can the light that burned so brightly Suddenly burn so pale? Bright eyes.
Bright eyes, burning like fire. Bright eyes, how can you close and fail? How can the light that burned so brightly Suddenly burn so pale? Bright eyes.
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Must remark on Hypo’s response to Marilyn. Marilyn and I are friends and often have phone conversations of current affairs and the like.
Basically, Hypo’s response is word for word for what I’d say in reply
Its better live coward than dead hero stuff but with Abbott stalking the place like an Allosaurus with migraine, its understandable.
The uncertainty factor is ramped up by the press and media and the public like sheep stampeded into reactive decision-making on subjective and fearful grounds, such as with refugee flows. Ecology, development and conservation is another issue of this sort, as vested interests move to convince Australians that global warming and a hundred other enviro issues are bogus, dreamed up by a mythical left.
Beleive me, Marilyn knows exactly what goes down in Canberra, she used to work there for the Dems, The fact that she’s come out swinging on the government’s behalf actually tells us more about what she may feel of Abbott, as much as demonstrating any great affection for the current lot.
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The question not one cretin in the media is asking is why suddenly only two HSU officials accused of using the same brothel a few times in an 18 month time frame and nothing before or since?
It’s interesting to note as well that before Kathy Jackson took over the Victorian branch the first HSU report says that the accounts were audited every month, that stopped after August 2008 so any so-called slips for any brothels would have got past the entire audit office without anyone noticing until Pauline Fegan finds some against Jeff Jackson and then Kathy Jackson clamis to find some against Craig Thomson.
Are the fucking media in this country stupid?
That is not a question that requires an answer.
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Are the embedded media in this country stupid?
In some instances Yes. But more often bought off, timid, lazy or don`t care.
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Have you read this? http://www.independentaustralia.net/2012/politics/thomson-and-jackson-5-sticky-fingers/ Everybody should read this.
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I still can’t get by the thought that the facts of this quite obvious witch hunt have largely ceased to matter and the Gillard has effectively conceded as much by acquiescing to pressure in distancing herself from Thomson.
The calumny may be one of Abbott’s making but it is shared as a form of quilt by association with any on the conservative side of politics who fail to cry “not in my name”!
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Yep.
Read it last night.
Don’t expect the MSM to read it though.
As I’ve said -that, (and listening) was disabled when Rupert and the opposition set the game plan up.Remember The Abbott Rupee get together???
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Thanks for that link, Jennifer. Wicks has done it again :
“[A] sickening display of personal attacks from the Coalition that have highlighted the inner ugliness of some of the Liberal front bench. And after all the muck-racking and personal attacks from the Coalition frontbench, Tony Abbott today had the audacity to suggest that Craig Thomson resign from Parliament — apparently for his own good. This whole Craig Thomson affair has a nauseating stench to it — and very little of it seems to be coming from the man so much under attack.”
Jackson is apparently all that Marilyn has claimed she is – and more. And that is saying something!
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Doug I have a long reputation for understatement on most things.
Only when I see human rights being shockingly abused do I see red and dig deeper and deeper.
A point has been made about the silly credit slip being a duplicate with the date in blue ink, not only that but the numbers 2 and 4 are different each time they are written.
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“Doug I have a long reputation for understatement on most things”
And a good sense of humour, as well!
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And modest, but I did expose the jailing of hundreds of Australian’s which helped to expose the hell Vivian Alvarez was subjected to.
I was looking for lies about the Bakhtiyari family and found a question on notice pointing out that 33 people had been released from jail after illegally being jailed by DIACl
That has led to tens of millions in compensation being paid out to over 200 such people.
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Light Reading(Most of you probably have long since done so, but just in case….)
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/one-shouts-and-the-other-sneers-no-wonder-we-have-a-leadership-deficit/story-e6frg7ex-1226367281308
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http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/liberal-mp-kelly-odwyer-in-twitter-gaffe-on-foreign-workers/story-fn7x8me2-1226369432120
I’m with Kelly.
Can we piss Abetz off home back to Germany so he can continue his fascist career?
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German-born Abetz was quick to invade Poland, sorry, address the media after 3 1/2 hours of the privileges committee had met, declaring to the hungry media beast that it was clear that Craig Thomson had misled the Reichstag, sorry, parliament. Seconds later, ABC 24 was running the headline that Abetz says Thomson had misled parliament. This news was so important that the rest of the media decided to ignore it completely. Not a mention on Channel Ten’s evening news. Not a mention on Yahoo7 News. The Witchfinder-General will have to try harder. Back to the bunker for you, Erica.
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I’m happy for Abetz go, as long as she takes Kelly with him…actually as most of them are revolting he should take them all….
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Abetz to go
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Abetz is now and always has been a fuck-up.
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A prime exhibit was the Australian Military Court, where he put up legislation which any 3rd year law student could have told him would be found Unconstitutional. That left several of our soldiers at risk of indictment in the International Criminal Court – the court of last resort to deal with the dross of failed States pariah regimes and outlaws.
He should have been shot, as should several other ex-ministers from Howard’s regime. Reith, Andrews, Abbott, Bronny Bishop, Ruddock and Howard himself for starters.
If that fuckwit Rudd had had any balls he would have had a Royal Commission into the various Howard disasters AWB, AMC, children overboard, U486, the waterfront debacle, probably several others.
My blood boils that anyone could want Rudd back, or Abbott as PM.
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At last! We finally have a politician who could organise a good time in a brothel! Lets keep him in parliament at least for that reason.
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I’m probably going to use that!
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Yes it has been doing the email circuit for a few days now, with ”as an extra word in the description.
It’s recycled no doubt.
Such pencil sharpening is not new.
Not sure Thompson is claiming he ‘organised’ anything though.
I agree with DQs Royal Commission angle.
And the Hague awaits the Three Amoebas of Bush/Blair/Howard.
____________________________________________________
I also like how the farmers want compo for lining their pockets via tortured cows which was an incompetent/MLA cover up in the same way the AWB and wheat for guns ended up as a compo suit.
Happy to take the cash initially through suspect deals with cruelty and corruption,not happy to take a hit after the scam is exposed, happy for taxpayers to compensate after.
F*ck me Australia. Wake up!.
98% of farmers are exporters and we sponsor them.They cannot fail.
No wonder foreign mega companies are buying our best ag land and water.
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Hypo: Is the paragraph above (“…farmers want compo… etc”) your writing, or are you quoting from somewhere else?
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Original, I think, but hardly unique, Our primary producers have always been in favour of “capitalise the profits and socialise the losses”.
Nice work if you can get it.
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Yea, primary production in Australia is a real bludge.
Almost makes one cry to think how much better off the country’d be if we didn’t have to support them!
Hypo has got a few facts wrong though, unless he’s got some inside information that is not publicly available.
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DQ
He/she’s an armchair lawyer,a publican and somehow connected to cattle farming/ag in rural QLD. Possibly foreign born. And obviously a political genius.
Let him do his own research.
I’d answer but as we all know, I fell well below his lofty mega- mensa standards,and judging by the red-necks he hangs out with > ‘at the public house’ I never want to reach those standards.
(A few don’t seem to to do the ‘coloured skin thing very well. Funny that.)
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If you ever drive east on the Arnhem Highway you will travel on bitumen … once beautiful, well-maintained, clear straight run all the way to the Alligator River, where there is a road bridge comparable to any in southern Aussie. After crossing the river you drive a short distance further and the Arnhem Highway suddenly turns to dirt (or mud in the Wet Season). But the bitumen turns a corner…a sweeping curve so the road-trains barely needed to slow down to negotiate…left towards the north…and you continue on this wonderful highway about five miles when you are suddenly confronted by a large gate…closed since the once world standard multi-million dollar meatworks was shut down.
This meatworks, sadly decaying from years neglect in tropical heat & monsoons, was once the pride of the cattle-trade meat industry…one of dozens dotted in north West Oz, the Territory & north Qld (where the beer is called xxxx because they can’t make it and they can’t spell it). When the live trade into Asia began, the pastoralists couldn’t wait to see these meatworks close…couldn’t give a toss for the thousands of meatworkers thrown out of work & families made homeless…(including Halal slaughtermen) didn’t give a damn how many cattle fell off Darwin & other wharfs into shark and croc infested waters (hardly a dint in the profits) as they were driven off the roadtrains and onto stinking crowded ill-lit noisy ships…at night so the locals and tourists didn’t see & raise objections.
They also didn’t care that bush meat couldn’t be processed legally as the meatworks closed. (It’s to do with the length of time between shooting an animal and getting to an abatoirs to be properly butchered) No meatworks, no hunting. A decision that almost killed the highly profitable hunting industry, and helped raise the feral pig and buffalo numbers (& the spread of TB) so destructive to native fauna & flora.
And after millions of taxpayers $$$ going into supporting the live trade, through direct subsidies & indirectly via orgs like CSIRO, CMA, University Research Projects & others…and so many years happily turning a blind eye to how their “precious” animals suffered in the name of cattlemen’s bank balances (many of the same offering appalling employment rates & conditions to their workers); finally they’ve been caught out…and I’m expected to feel sorry for the poor woe-begone cattlemen?
A tiny part of a much larger story the cattlemen “accidently” edit out of their whinging?
Ah…is this a little bit too inconvenient for ya, Steve? Have another xxxx.
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Thanks Julia,
I remember, when all this blew up last year about animal cruelty in the live export trade, posting a few comments on various blogs asking why we could afford to build and manage a shipping fleet dedicated to this trade at a cost which to my way of thinking seemed obviously excessive compared with processing meat onshore.
I wish I’d had your perspective on it then as it tends to confirm my worst suspicions.
It is difficult to know who to blame whether it is indeed the pastoralists or pastoral companies and so on as so forth down the supply chain to the consumer at the end of it be they local or in this case foreign. The lengths to which these a-holes will conspire to screw over Australian workers seems almost criminal to me.
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Hudso, Julia made up every word of that above post. Don’t make a fool of yourself by ever quoting from it. Julia is either writing a fantasy, or is delusional. There isn’t a single fact in that rant.
If you’re after facts, or even a remotely informed perspective on the live export trade, you’re not going to get it from the window-lickers who comment here.
Even if they knew what they were talking about, which they certainly don’t, they’d not be able to resist making up a conspiracy, or blame some poor workin stiff.
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Hudso: What may at casual glance seem to be factually provable, need not be. Read Julia’s comment carefully. It is bristling with emotive stuff she just plain made up, peppered through with a few cut & pastes from generic sources, to give an impression of authoritative knowledge.
Julia hasn’t struck you as particularly disingenuous? Tsk tsk, once again, I urge you to carefully read Julia’s comment. Most carefully.
I’ll deal with one point at a time. This (short) comment will be devoted to:
Abbatoirs.
The only correct part about Julia’s rant about abbatoirs is that, yes, there actually were some in the north, now closed. The rest she made up.
Flowery prose about a particular closed abbatoir aside, Julia makes the claim there were “dozens” of abbatoirs peppered accross the north, fed by the northern cattle industry.
This area in question is from Carnarvon to Townsville. Quite a chunk of the Ozzi coastline.
Hmm…. dozen(s) would mean more than 24. Hmmm….
No quibble, shall we put this down to hyperbolic licence?
For comparison one may consider that (now closed) cattle fed abbatoirs in the north are fewer in number than the abbatoirs that have closed in Victoria & southern NSW in the same time period. (Just an aside.)
Julia claims that when the live trade began, & the northern abbatoirs closed (in Julia world these happened at the same time, and the one caused the other.) that pastoralists “couldn’t wait to see these meatworks closed”.
Of course they did not, pastoralists are no different to anybody else, and it is one helluva struggle to conceptualise that they’d rejoice at the closing of a market. (If Julia desires credibility, it’d be wise to ease off on the more outlandish of fabrications.)
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What you’ve done there is to cast a few doubts and spin things the opposite way. It may offer your valid perspective, but I don’t think it really refutes my point.
By arguing against Julia while addressing me instead you seem to be taking a rather indirect route to the truth. I think that in rather insults my intelligence for you to treat my stated opinions as predicated entirely upon Julia’s posts. Whether she makes a good case in support of my view of the issue or not the fact remains that live cattle exports and opposed to local processing just doesn’t stack up economically or in terms of the humane treatment of animals. So I’m asking why the hell are we doing it?
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And where does this lead?
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-05-31/northern-cattle-producers-welcome-new-meatworks/4043618
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Hunting:
Julia states that abbatoirs slaughtering cattle for human consumption also took meat from bush killed feral animals.
I can’t begin to think where the health inspector would start with that one. I’m not suggesting Julia is certifiable, but this claim is rather far out. Some strange things happen at times. Julia must provide solid evidence for this.
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Steve,
I think it might be proper online etiquette for you to direct your queries and criticisms of this nature to Julia rather than me. After all the shared forum is like a room where you’re talking about her in her presence as if she can’t hear you. It seems churlish to me.
I don’t know the answers to your questions. She writes from her experience not mine. But I know kangaroo has been taken from the wild for pet and human consumption and that likewise feral animals going back as far as the Buffalo cull were occasionally taken for meat.
Not relevant to the points I made though is it really?
So while you may say others inadequately argue against issues surrounding the top end beef industry I’m clearly saying something entirely different. I’m saying that neither have people like yourself who speak in support of the live trade have never adequately justified its existence.
My point is that there’s not a single concrete statement of economic or logistical explanation offered by anyone on your side of the fence that even makes the attempt to persuade me to the view that this is the best option we have over slaughtering and processing onshore.
It seems urbane to the topic to say that you’re all talking a load of Bull.
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Blind Eyes:
Julia is suggesting that cattlemen knew of maltreatment of “their” animals. This is not true. How could they have known. Most only knew what happened to their cattle up until the moment ownership changed & the cattle became the property of someone else.
How could cattlemen in Australia have known? The activist group who got the furtive footage had to go to great lengths to get it. Maltreatment was neither the order of the day, nor highly visible. Nor was it as widespread as was made out to be.
Julia also states that “many” cattlemen were offering appaling employment rates & conditions to their workers.
Golly, Julia just keeps on making stuff up. If she has information on breaches of industrial law, tell an Industrial Inspector.
In summary, there sure were some abbatoirs in the north, which are now closed. Their sure are some cattle live exported, their sure is some funding of the CSIRO.
Everything else written by Julia is just plain made up.
A lie.
Why wouldn’t one feel sorry for cattlemen? They have done nothing wrong.
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For many decades there have been laws throughout Aust concerning hunting of feral animals, with slight variations in different states…this covers feral cattle (inc buffalo), wild pigs & deer etc. If it is to be used as human food then the animal MUST be processed through an abattoirs within, if I remember rightly, four hours of the kill. This was introduced so the animal can be inspected for signs of TB, liver fluke & a range of other communicable diseases & parasites. Once it is cleared it is certified fit for human consumption, processed through the boning room after which the shooter can then do what he likes with it….eat it, share it, sell it
In some parts of Oz, Vic included where it’s mostly deer hunting, this law causes a fair bit of annoyance as the meat tends to be returned as mince down south…so visions of venison steaks ends up as hamburgers, rissoles or meatloaf.
With the closure of many of the Top End meatworks it became near impossible to comply with this law as the travel time to the nearest abattoirs was well over the time limit. This had an effect on the poorer families in the bush who had traditionally used hunting as a cheap affordable way of providing meat for their families.
Also organised professional game safaris can be a very profitable business, but only if the cashed-up hunter can actually get to taste his kill.
Both kinds of hunting in the Territory almost completely vanished with the closures, though some continued under the guise of hunting for dogfood.
And yes, I know, the xxxx brewery is in Brisbane…but when it comes to beer they still can’t make it or spell it
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Julia, have you the faintest idea what you are talking about?
The only inconvenience in your above post would be if you didn’t have enough toilet breaks (typin while drinking can be a slow exercise)
Comedy time over. If you’ve anything sensible to write, go ahead. I don’t know what I’ve done to you, but if it pushed you over the edge, you are one fragile psyche.
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http://blog.tickcontent.com/features/the-psychology-of-an-internet-troll/
However they will need a sub category for your sub species.
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Steve,
There’s no reply button under the comment you made to mine claiming that Julia had “made up every word”.
It seems to me that what she claimed would be factually provable on a number of fronts so that one or both of you is lying to us. I don’t know Julia but she hasn’t struck me as particularly disingenuous. So I expect that is you who could afford to tone down your rhetoric and perhaps concede certain of the facts if not the interpretations that Julia and I have drawn from them.
The existence of abattoirs that have shut down and remained derelict would be I think the main such claim. But information about levels of indirect government support for the live trade would also be in evidence had one the resources to check it.
My objection to the live export trade is twofold. It is in my view unnecessarily cruel on the face of it to ever transport an animal on a ship simply in order that it can be despatched in a foreign country in a manner similar or perhaps even less humanely than what could be done here. You may well argue the beef industry is necessarily profit driven and I’m no vegan, so I understand that arguments for animal welfare that would always put it so far ahead of the profit motive might ultimately never see a single beast slaughtered. But there is a second objection. The difficulty in believing that the profit motive alone justifies mounting the massive effort of constructing and maintaining a fleet of purpose fitted ships and all the attendant infrastructure that is required to ship live animals overseas. Knowing that they lose condition as a result, and knowing that we have failed to meet humane standards tells anyone with half a brain that we could set up Halal facilities whether separately or alongside current abattoirs and do a better job.
In fact I see no reason not to insist upon doing so!
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Hudso: Perhaps you have some misconceptions about the live cattle export trade.
Cattle are not exported to Indonesia direct to slaughter.
That is: They don’t walk off the boat & into an abbatoir. It is several months, at the earliest, before they are killed.
While it is the destiny of a beast to be slaughtered, cattle going to Indonesia are young and small. They are not fit to be slaughtered. The heaviest of them average 340kg in weight. The maximum allowable weight is 350kg.
Cattle are live exported to Indonesia by a specialist exporter, who purchases the cattle, in Australia, from a northern cattleman, usually taking delivery on the wharf. The exporter sells the cattle in Indonesia, usually giving delivery on the wharf.
The Indonesian owner then handles their new livestock as they see fit. Usually this is to grow and fatten it for sale to a slaughterman. Or sometimes they will instead join their new livestock to their breeding herd.
The live export fleet is not “ours”, nor do we “build” or “maintain” it. It is privately owned by for-profit enterprises. Most of the ships carrying live export cattle from Australia to Indonesia are privately owned by foreign citizens, who are not domiciled in Australia.
You can take direct to those ship owners your objection to them “maintaining” a fleet. They are private individuals, not faceless corporations, and may listen to what you have to say, or they may not & instead instruct their secretary to toss you out of their office!
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Spot on Julia,
They certainly seem to nave backed off the level of bromide in XXXX beer.
I blame the TGA, who are AWOL when we need them, but hyperactive when we don’t.
I think the MLA (especially) and those farmers screeching for compo, should go into the Teflon cooking utensils manufacturing industry.
“Nothing Sticks Rural Cookware” .Even responsibility/culpability slides off.
Julia,
Looks like you might be joining me in the ‘not bright enough to participate with Steve’ sin-bin.You’ll like it.
You can see/hear/smell/touch/taste reality from here.
1-2-3-4-5 senses working overrrrr time.
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Hypo, name a “farmer” (just the use of that word says you don’t know shit about live export) who is screeching, or in any other way asking for compo.
And it was arsenic in xxxx that gave it the kick. And neither does Julia know shit, or she’d know the stuff has never been “the beer” in the country from which live-export cattle are sourced.
When typing from Pitt Street, one should perhaps avoid topics one hasn’t the slightest inkling of.
Don’t make complete fools of yourselves. Okay, it is a hobby site, and the commentary has been taken over by window lickers, but don’t be “heads” all your lives!
Just what do you bastards have against aboriginals anyway?
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So commenters here are “window lickers” are they? Then why don’t you go elsewhere, and lick whatever you would rather lick?
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Dearie me Dougie Coyote, don’t tell me I’ve beaten you too? I thought you had many times the horsepower of the rest of ’em! Tch, tch, tch…!!
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Is it a contest? I thought we were here for sensible, sometimes humorous and often playful discussion. If you want to be argumentative, go elsewhere.
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Julia yesterday, there was a huge 2 page spread in the West Australian newspaper apparently.
A collage of players-farmers bleating about the effects of the loss of income(the MLA Indo farago, they find it hard to utter.)
That will be another clever media spin, pre-positioning the sector for the ensuing legal suit,by creating a public image that even producers running a crap business,any business should get a slice of the tax payer funded kick backs Ludwig will no doubt wear on our behalf-via this legal challenge.So the taxpayer will pay the govt lawyers,the compo and the costs for a f*ck up by the levy seeking MLA,engaed to avoid this in the first place.
It’s a pity the internet Trolls were so fixated with myths,denials and propaganda.
It’s a bigger pity the corporate sector of agriculture play the victim on farmers behalf to keep the pork barrel rolling.
The type of farmer who put his livestocks welfare before profit at any cost has long since gone,especially in cattle,give or take a few.
Either that or the minute amount of concerned cattle farmers,decrying the Indo f+ckup are too scared and intimidate to speak up.
I think during the whole thing i heard one voice seeking to use the opportunity to improve things one and for all.
it was a woman.Deafening silence now except for the litigation war cries and jingling cash registers.
If MLA speaks FOR cattle exporters and takes their cash, oh dear.big fail, cow-cockies.BIG FAIL!
And in the end what all this means is there are some cretins are out there saying ‘animal cruelty, so what’.
or “not our responsibility no more y’all”.
The ongoing law suit will see whether the number of cretins has increased.
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Thanks Hypo & Hudson for the vote of confidence.
I will admit to knowing Steve would howl in protest. In my mind he lost his credibility a long time ago with his personal attacks & insulting rants.
There’s far worse things than ending up in a one-eyed barfly’s sinbin, where at the least we can have VB on tap & bottles of a good cheeky little charday to share.
A quick snapshot of the “poor fella me” cattle farming industry….
Aust’s biggest meat processor is Australia Meat Holdings. At last reckoning it has 10 abattoirs & 5 cattle feedlots, & is owned by the world’s largest meat producer, Brazilian company JBS.
2 of the other top 3 meat processors (& beef producers are Cargill Beef (in the US) & Nippon Meat Packers (in Japan).
Nippon operates the largest cattle feedlot in Aust near Texas, Qld & a King Island grass-fed operation.
Cargill owns the Jindalee feedlot near Wagga Wagga, NSW…with all its grain coming from Cargill’s oilseeds & grain supply business, and 40% ownership of Allied Mills (Aust’s biggest flour producer).
Landmark Wesfarmers is now foreign-owned.
Consolidated Pastoral Company, CPC, formerly owned by the Packer family (who probably still have shares) is in part where the Vesty name disappeared into. It’s own website boasts 19 properties covering more than 5.8 million hectares across WA, the NT, Qld, & NSW & manages more than 363,000 cattle across north Aust. It is controlled by the British investment group Terra Firma, a private equity company.
Two of the three major shareholders in Aust Agricultural Co who indignantly shouted so loud over the live export suspension are banks.
HSBC Custody Nominees (Aust) Ltd & part of HSBC Holdings is a global financial services co based in Canary Wharf London. It’s listed as the number one shareholder for all of Aust’s Big Four Bamks with (June30, 2010) total “declared”assets of $2.418 trillion…of which roughly half were in Europe, a quarter in Americas & a quarter in Asia.
The other one is Citicorp Nominees P/L …also listed as number four shareholder in the Big Four Banks. It is a wholly owned subisdiary of Citi Group Inc…the world’s largest financial netwrok.
The third major shareholder is the Malaysian Govt.
Moola Bulla Station near Hall’s Creek, which threatened to shoot their cattle is they weren’t allowed to send them to be tortured in Indonesia was bought (can’t recall the date) by it’s former part-owner South African Western Australian Pastoral Co (they also own Beefwood Park Station among others)…as far as I can see there was no Australian ownership here either.
It was owned by CPC but was sold out to Terra Firma in April 2009.
Terra Firma (& their front name CPC) export beef cattle primarily to SE Asia…live export & management. On CPC’s website they offer their investors opportunities in the Indonesian feedlotting game… “vertical integration” is the expression used to denote one company owning the whole shebang. Terra Firma has offices in London, Frankfurt & the Guernsey tax haven.
They were well aware of what was (is?) going on in their feedlots & abattoirs in Indonesia. Indeed there are poorly veiled references to the cruelty in the archives of the industry’s many & varied publications, The Weekly Times AND past episodes of Landline.
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Another throw of the proverbial dart…an inscy winscy glimpse of the taxpayers monies thrown hand-over-fist into supporting the industry:
http://www.nt.gov.au/d/Content/File/p/NL/KRR/300_10_krr.pdf
I’m not saying it’s not a good thing for taxpayers $$$ going into research & development & supporting beef production. After all, we have achieved many good things among the wastage and pocket-lining. For one, Australia is the ONLY country to totally eliminate brucellosis (sp?) out of the national herd. An achievement not to be sneezed at.
At the bottom of this govt published 300th edition of the Katherine Rural Review are a bunch of tables & figures that indicate (again just a tiny glimpse) of the scale of the live export industry.
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Julia, If I may, I’ll correct your first batch of falsehoods & errors before I fisk this latest lot.
You are incredibly misinformed.
Which can happen when one copies & pastes stuff without knowing what it means, & seeks to reinforce a pre-existing predjudice.
Hudso & Hypo, like yourself, know nothing of either the beef industry, or the live export trade. Their vote of confidence, perhaps well meant, is thus without value.
You can say what you like about me, but you will never find me saying anything that is wrong. This is a powerful bar for you to aspire to, having typed paragraph after paragraph of either cut & paste, or stuff you made up as you went along.
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XXXX & Falling off the wharf:
Julia states that in north Qld the beer is called XXXX because they “can’t make it & can’t spell it”.
Poor attempt at faking a cultural reference. XXXX isn’t made in north Qld, it is made in the nation’s south. Neither was it the “beer around here” in north Qld, particularly in cattle country. Not when live export got going.
Julia suggests that pastoralists “didn’t give a damn” about cattle falling off Darwin wharf, (“it barely dents the profits”). Another fail at faking a cultural reference.
Does Julia expect us to believe that the people loading cattle are going to see a beast, you know, just “fall” off the wharf (as they do) and say something like, “Look here Jacko, another one’s fallen in, haha, see how it splashes in desperation!”
Yet another failed attempt at faking knowledge, Julia ain’t been anywhere near loading a ship. Not ever.
Never mind what the stock inspectors would do, the owner of the cattle (the “pastoralist”) would react most strongly. Depending upon disposition of the pastoralist, the one responsible for ignoring (& causing) the plight of such a beast would face a combination of job loss, ostracism from the industry, & possibly a broken nose.
Ships are loaded at night to spare the feelings of “locals & tourists”? Yea, the sight of cattle being moved around, just like in a saleyard, suddenly morphs into something to be ashamed of just because cattle are loading from a truck to a ship?
Julia, do you get your rural knowledge from a little golden book? Expecting to see red barns, chickens being fed, & a fox lurking hungrily nearby?
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WTF???
The ABC HAS revealed?
Really?
What stellar investigative research.
Meanwhile at NPFS the story is decomposing under dust an inch think.
And at Independent Aust Aunty? (and elsewhere)
What bullshit artists.Hypocrites
Does ‘covering their arse’ seem applicable,here?
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-05-28/fair-work-australia-vice-president-deeply-involved-in-hsu-fight/4038274
Wixxy for The Andrew Olle, maybe.
Chris Uhlmann is taking credit! Pass me the sick bucket.
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Yeah the story was only 6 months old.
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I see Julia is ahead in the polls as preferred P.M. again, It looks like the conservatives will have to find another patsy, the Thomson affair just ain’t cutting it. I always thought the prostitute story was a bit suss. After all, Thomson ain’t that bad looking at the end of the day, unlike most of the coalition male members most of whom wouldn’t get a root in a wood yard, or indeed a brothel with a handful of $100.00 bills.
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He was also married and travelling with his wife but why let a good story ruin facts.
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http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-05-30/thomson-votes-with-coalition/4041652
ROFL
Cannot wait to see this on the Telly later.
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Truly hilarious – but Abbott and Pyne lost yet another race. The opposition is a laughing stock; when will the media catch up?
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DQ,
I also saw a little of the HoR today,though not the poodle and rabbit exhibition (yet).
I was loving Albanese smash Abbott after a slur on Gillard.
That must have given the rabbit ‘hollow chest’ burn.
“If he only had a heart.”
__________________________________________
Question-supposition:
Would either of the Liberal Party French Bunt foghorns have claimed compo if they had come-a-gutsa in their zeal to alight?
What would the compo-form have read, where they ask to describe ‘what were you doing at the time of the incident’.How it happened.What caused the injury?
Well Tony?
Well Chris?
There’s a workplace insurance and Duty of Care law question in need of an answer.
“Would you expect taxpayers or a workplace insurance company to pay for your medical and associated costs, had you injured yourself,by behaving in a manner which could knowingly cause an injury to yourself or others?”
I know JUST what would have happened to any other worker, in most other workplaces who injured themselves (or another) in such a way.
Real leaders think before they run/hide/act, adversely impact others.
At least that’s the SPIN I have heard from the Opposition since the current government was sworn in.
Rule change?
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The media will never catch up. This is the redux of Whitlam dismissal. The media in this country are an absolute joke and have no shame what so fucking ever. As an aside, in question time today the look on Turnbull’s kisser said it all really. He sat there in dis-belief watching the circus in action.
Anyone notice there’s been hardly a peep out of Turnbull of late? He is keeping his powder very dry, they’re going to off load Abbott very soon of that I am very sure. Tony Abbott and his reputation is a creation of the media, a fake of the highest order, he is that shallow he could parachute out of a snakes arse. I am over sixty and would go five rounds with him anyday of the week, he’s a powder puff.
I am starting to see a change in the fortune for the government, it is beginning to smell the opposition for what it is, a load of over paid spivs.
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It’s interesting that the Vatican is simultaneously crumbling.
Maybe the Cathos backed the wrong guy/god?
Aw shucks.
Say it one more time.
Albo?
Legend,today.You da man!
Whatever it takes to slay the swaggering dragon.
And yes Turnbull would be grinning.
His tactic would be (should the FK’s wake up) stick with the current line up,get in and then gut the scum.
The streets of Liberal Canberra would run thick with clots, for weeks.
Mwhoar hahahahahaha
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Albo should have got into these shysters months ago. It is obvious there has been a change in the tactics of the government, they’re on the offencive, and about bloody time. Somebody should have told the government ages ago, you can’t win a war with a load of abject malicious bullshit artists, with your hands tied to your bollocks.
If and when Gillard wins the next election, she should immediately call a royal commission into investigate the media in this country. Then let the trials begin, if they don’t dig up as much shite here as in England, I would be very surprised.
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..and put the shoe on the other foot and commission an RC into the Howard/years- lies.We are now a greater terrorist target because of his tenure and behaviour therein.
Let’s not forget the slimy AH has always wanted to destroy the unions and enslave the workers.More media rectal head parking.
And to add nausea to the the excrement, “IT” had the bilious gall to (after he LOST HIS SEAT and the ELECTION), bulshit on about his greatest regret being his failure to address indigenous issues.
The black arm scumbag seeking 4giveness.
Feck off.He stole Hanson’s soul and wore her skin.
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Indeed we are a terrorist threat.Who could forget those weapons of mass disaster? The poison dwarf made my skin crawl. One can only imagine the pictures of this arse hole on the bed heads of the blue rinse set out in the burbs. I bet some of those old grannies out there dead set wet themselves looking at him. If it wasn’t so serious it would be funny.
We now have a prima facia case (unlike Iraq) that the Neanderthal running Syria Arsesad is murdering women and children with gay abandon and what do we do ? F.A. a few sanctions. I nearly brought my weetbix up this very morning listening to Bob Carr wax lyrically about a military intervention wasn’t an option, because dig this, Arsesad has got thousands of missiles. He gave us a full on lecture on logistics and strategic planning in a sentence. I wonder if he will give us the same bullshit line should the nutters running this world attack Iran? I think I am going to be quite ill thinking about it all.
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A bit tough, isn’t it? The reason Assad is secure from outside attack is that Russia is an ally, and that Russia and China have vetoed any UN intervention, a la Libya. The rest is waffle, but interview time needs to be used up or the journos will make up their own story.
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I am aware of the Russian and Chinese position on Syria, the fact that they are friends and allies will not stop the hyper power the U.S. doing as it pleases. This is about home grown politics, if Obama decides to use the military option, he may find himself swinging in a tree. The yanks have just about had their fill of spending a kings ransom on wasted wars. My only point here is this, the Arsesad regime must go. Not because of all the geopolitical WAFFLE, but because he is a murdering arse hole.
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…..and how convenient for us that the ‘boys’ over in Afghanistan can catch a local flight when they leave and head straight to Syria.Carr is dropping the hints already.
So much for being a part of Asia.
No wonder the Yanks are setting up F Troop in Darwin.
I don’t even think Gomer Pyle would believe a ANZUS approach against China/ Russia, could succeed.
Sorry to get all geopolitical again.
He is a murdering arsehole.
Perhaps the CIA can pay AlQeada to take him out.
I’m sure they are regular golf buddies.
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What does narcissism look like?
“You can say what you like about me, but you will never find me saying anything that is wrong.”
and
“You are incredibly misinformed.”
and
“Hudso & Hypo, like yourself, know nothing of either the beef industry, or the live export trade. Their vote of confidence, perhaps well meant, is thus without value.”
______________________________________________
3 badges of honour, for us, when they emanate from such an infantile orifice.
That is as Troll as one can get.Although he does up the Trollness each time he regurgitates.
His blog links to racist sites left right and centre,(mainly right) His foreign fluffers denigrate the President of the US in the same way he and hi Lib cohorts denigrate our PM and Democracy generally.
He reeks of foreign arrogance and impudence.
That is as Troll as one can get.He gets a AAA Troll rating.
Feed him not.
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Your Troll is one of many right wing know alls to grace the pages of blogdom. He is just a shill for right wing causes, especially the farmers who he thinks are special. You should read his thoughts on guns. My God a regular Wyatt Earp.
Over here in the west, the farmers federation were mortified when the state government threatened to privatise the ‘Wheat Board’ the farmers have a guaranteed cheque (government that is) at the rail head terminal.If privatised it was revealed that they would all receive different prices for their crop. Fancy that ‘Free Enterprise’ in the bush who would have thunk it? As was said up the thread, they have always wanted to capitalise on the profits and socialise on the losses.
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They say the bigger the gun cabinet,the smaller the dick/IQ.
George Bush had a regular arsenal.
As for the over inflated relevance of the Right to Bear Arms …, here or anywhere else…….Why shucks
‘You never know when you’ll find a salty in the bath, a rhino in the fridge or a yellow communist dictator running the local restaurant or perhaps a non WASP infiltrating the village, on a cow poaching mission.’
I note the sale of Hoodies in rural QLD has dropped %.
Considering how xenophobic the rural population is,they sure embrace the idea of Asian mail-order brides with open arms.It’s enough to make your skin crawl.
Redman continues to destroy WA agriculture by converting it into a corporate dominated employment agency,as the last few reasonable land managers cave in.
He continues the good work of Barry Court who opened the door for the red-neck racist farmers of S Africa to sleaze their way onto ag leases before they were converted to free hold or 100year etc.The top end will never be the same.
The country rail network in WA was also destroyed by the Courts.
Flogged off with a taxpayer repair clause which saw the network all but disintegrate.They neo-cons call themselves better business managers.
Pigs arse.
Meantime thousands of trucks destroy the over utilised road network.
Imagine the state of the QLD economy and roads, after Newman finishes mining it dry.If the sheep who enlisted Newman at the voting box, think that Jabba the Magnates will build QLDs public roads they must be auto-fellating themselves.
As a side note if you did a poll of the ethnicity of right wing Trolls in Oz you mention(and the right dominate the concept 95%) all would be white,mostly male, and a Lions share would be foreign born,with many being dual citizenship.
Nothing like having our social fabric gutted by arseholes,who can do an Abbott (run home) when the going gets tough.
Pathetic sook, is he.
No wonder Abbott works out.He’s a regular chicken on steroids.
“Dear Tone,we said run the country,not run away from it.”
Turnbull must have p*ssed himself, till dripping wet.
“What’s that Tone?
B’gairk,bok,bok,bok-B’gairk,bok,bok,bok-B’gairk,bok,bok,bok.”
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And this,the first story as I returned to the News site.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-05-31/chinese-food-deal-a-threat-to-sovereignty/4044134
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Wixxy examines the evidence provided by Fairfax regarding the pictured credit card, the transaction slip, the driver’s license, and the sample signature.
http://www.independentaustralia.net/2012/politics/thomson-7-credit-card-slips-clarifications-and-truth-bombs/
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Oh look,
Another one of those things which never happened in the days of the Teflon Dynasty .
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-05-31/former-awb-director-admits-to-breach/4045314
Just like the MLA levy misappropriations, and subsequent desire since,for producers/players to milk taxpayers for the MLA f*ckups.
The invisibility of the Howard years,the ignorance of the right,the arrogant audacity of the greedy.
A dollar for every one of there spin cycles and a cent for all their lies and we could pave the streets with gold, 3 times over.
“Wheat exports under the program concealed almost $300 million which went to the regime of Saddam Hussein.”
Oh not NOT the farmers! Not their chosen brokers!Not their preferred pocket liners!
Let me guess.ASIC is a puppet of the left?
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My how things change.
PM Bob Hawke shedding tears over Chinese students being attacked by the authorities in Tiananmen Square.
What a hypocrite.
Another stitch up by politicians on both sides.
The disgusting WA Ag Minister and now an ex Labor PM teams up with Emerson.
Labor’s self destruction continues.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-06-01/emerson-denies-conflict-of-interest-claims/4047256
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